Ticky lifters + blower...

OK... I'm getting real close to biting the bullet and picking up a blower setup from Gary, BUT I have a dilemma. Do I need to address on-again/off-again ticky lifters beforehand? Part of me wants to pick up a set of aftermarket lifters for $20/apiece and see how that goes (beats the $65/ea I've been quoted for factory parts - esp when there's 16 of the little bastards), but the other part of me wants to swap in an NB solid-lifter head.

So, I guess it's a 2-part question...

1) Should I mess with an intermittent noisy lifter problem before I dive headfirst into a blower install?

2) If so, is it worth it to swap out an NB solid-lifter head/intake, or should I just spring for NA lifters?

2A) Has anybody used aftermarket NA lifters?

If I'm not mistaken, the 99-00 head is the best miata head to have, if you're thinking about switching anyway. Someone else will probably chime in and correct me/elaborate.

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Originally Posted by blackzx3_13

If I'm not mistaken, the 99-00 head is the best miata head to have, if you're thinking about switching anyway. Someone else will probably chime in and correct me/elaborate.

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That's what I hear from the Miata.net folks - esp since I think Mazda went to variable valve timing in '01 (I don't have all my P's and Q's straight). But they mention something tricky about the intake manifold, too... dual-length runners and a funky solenoid, or some such monkey-bidness...

And, you know, congrats on 1,900 posts!

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Originally Posted by trickyrix

OK... I'm getting real close to biting the bullet and picking up a blower setup from Gary, BUT I have a dilemma. Do I need to address on-again/off-again ticky lifters beforehand? Part of me wants to pick up a set of aftermarket lifters for $20/apiece and see how that goes (beats the $65/ea I've been quoted for factory parts - esp when there's 16 of the little bastards), but the other part of me wants to swap in an NB solid-lifter head.

So, I guess it's a 2-part question...

1) Should I mess with an intermittent noisy lifter problem before I dive headfirst into a blower install?

2) If so, is it worth it to swap out an NB solid-lifter head/intake, or should I just spring for NA lifters?

2A) Has anybody used aftermarket NA lifters?

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When I rebuilt my engine a few months ago (or had it rebuilt, anyway) we replaced the lifters with THESE Supposedly the OEM part, $6.95 each... Don't know if that changes your mind, but for what it's worth:

1) I'd not worry TOO much about ticking lifters. Lots of folks report that they serve as a nice oil change reminder, since they tend to start ticking after the oil's been in the engine for awhile.

2) The '99 head and intake will give you a performance boost, both NA and FI - but it'll cost you. Based on what I found when I was looking, it's gonna cost you at least $500 just to buy the parts, then any machine or shop work like cleaning up the valves and seats, at least checking the head for flatness, setting the valve clearances, etc. will cost more again. Plus there's the fiddling to get the VICS control working on the intake - not a big job, but more parts and more time, if that's an issue.

2A) I was having John Day do a valve job and clean up the head as part of the complete rebuild, so for me, it was just $130 or so after shipping - no additional work. The lifters arrived quickly and they have been very quiet since they were installed. I've got about 3000 miles on the engine and no complaints so far. John builds a lot of Miata motors, and he seemed satisfied with the lifters and was thrilled to find a source that was so inexpensive. (By the way his advice was to leave them alone, but hey - it's my $130...)

Bottom line - I'd not replace the head solely to get rid of ticking lifters. If they bother you enough to replace them, buy a new set of lifters for $130. (While you're at it, do the exhintake cam swap - it cost me about $100 for the cam, gear, and machine work).

The defnitely not-TCB approach, attractive as it is, would be the NB head and intake. It may be worth a few extra ponies - maybe more than the exhintake cam swap, but we don't have the dynos to prove it. I suspect that since you're going FI, you really don't NEED the NB head. Then again, more HP is always better, right?

Good luck, and PM me if you want more info

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Originally Posted by CraiginTX

Bottom line - I'd not replace the head solely to get rid of ticking lifters. If they bother you enough to replace them, buy a new set of lifters for $130. (While you're at it, do the exhintake cam swap - it cost me about $100 for the cam, gear, and machine work).

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Thanks for the info! What's the scoop on the cam swap???

I wonder how many of those lifters they have left. I just bought a whole set. ;)

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Originally Posted by trickyrix

Thanks for the info! What's the scoop on the cam swap???

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There are many threads on this topic on the pointy board. This one has some specifics on the install in post #3. Reads to be a very good mod for the outlay of $$!

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Originally Posted by trickyrix

Thanks for the info! What's the scoop on the cam swap???

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Short story is you need another exhaust cam for the 1.8L engine, and you install it on the intake side. (The exh. is higher-lift, longer duration than the int.) The best way to manage the timing would be to use an adjustable cam gear and dyno tune it. The TCB way is to drill a new hole in the stock cam gear to properly index the cam, then use the marks on the gear as usual.

The location for the hole (192.5 deg. clockwise from the "normal position" IIRC) is taken from a guy on m.net who used an adjustable gear and dyno tuned his BP-powered Protege. He gained ~9 hp on the dyno compared to two stock cams.

I haven't dynoed my car yet, but it does feel stronger at high RPMs. Gary has been in the car and commented that it felt strong above 5000 for an N/A car. A couple of friends who have driven it say it feels peppier as well. Of course our collective butt dynos may be lying.

There are the threads on m.net listed above, and this one on clubroadster.net has dyno results on a Miata - though not a before and after with only the one single change. Next time we're both at a Wed GTG, we can go for a ride, if you like.

if you gonna redo the head, +1 for John Day...he did an awesome job on mine.
My mototr runs great

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Originally Posted by channelmaniac

I wonder how many of those lifters they have left. I just bought a whole set. ;)

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Hmmm... Got the lifters and a set of main bearings in on Monday. Lifters were just bulk packaged. The bearings were made in Australia.

WOOHOO!

Those are going in the spare engine for the Spec.

RJ

I would not worry to much about the lifter noise if it is intermitten. Have you done a leak down and compression test yet? You should before going FI to make sure you do ahve a solid engine. Also SeaFoam the engines intake beofe testing for best results. If you have a weak engine, boost will compound the problem by pushing fuel more then normal into the oil and of course your oil consumption will increase.

Gary