So I got out of Jail yesterday...

I was riding to work on my bike I was on I-75 when I noticed my tire fealt funny. I pulled over to the shoulder under a bridge by exit 1B under the Henderson Bridge. (8:00am) Shortly after I ended my call to my boss to let him know I was going to be late. An officer drove up and approached me. He said I needed to move my bike out of the way. I told him I was making phone calls and taking care of it. He told me that I had about 10-15 minutes then he was going to have my bike towed and impounded. I told him he wasn't going to tow my bike and that I had every bit as much right to be broke down on the side of the road as the mini-van that was in front of me. It went back and forth for a while with him getting in my face and telling me that I can and will tow your bike. (He called me a liar at one point even though I don't recall why) He then went up to the minivan and then came back. He approached me again and said. I'm sorry, it looks like your having a bad day. I'm having a bad day as well; and I'm just passing it along to you. A few minutes go by and 6 more squad cars arrive with 7 officers. (The sergent adds one later in the story) I have 3 approach me and occupy my time with questions/BS and what not. So they are talking to me and a third one walks up. He asks if I'm crazy, if I'm on any medication, did I forget to take my medication, ect. ect. I reply with a "NO" to all of those questions, then he walks away with one of the others, leaving behind only one officer to chat me up. Moments later they come back and ask for my I.D. I ask if I am being written a ticket or being taken to jail being charged with something. They respond with no, and I give them the same response, No you can't see my I.D. Then they tell me to turn around and face the wall while twisting my arm around my back to put on the handcuffs. So I stand there waiting for about an hour they tell me they are waiting for the sergent to get there. Finally he arrives and walks up to me askes me one question, "did you tell the officer that he wasn't going to tow your bike"? I said, "Yes, he isn't going to tow my bike". He walks away has a conference with the others. I stand there hand cuffed for about another 30 mintes or so. I can only guess they wanted to see the look on my face when indeed they did get the tow truck there to tow my bike. After the tow driver arrived they asked me to step away and pushed me back to the squad car while they towed the bike. They never told me why I was being arrested, never read me any of rights meranda or what not. Took me to Lew Sterret (10:45) >BTW: if you were on I-75 durring that time. those 6 or 7 squad cars were blocking a lane of traffic for me for those 2+ hours, while I was handcuffed. So anyway, I got to spend my entire day in Jail because some faciout had a bad day. All while violating the 4th amendment.

At about 4:35 I got to plead "Not Guilty" to "Pedestrian in the roadway". (Which I later informed the judge that was the first I heard of why I was in the jail) Then judge that asked me if I had any warrants while shuffling relentlessly through papers (Which I didn't) and then inquired what was I doing in there and looked dumbfounded when I told her what happened as she set a court date for me between now and 8-10-10.

Good times being abused by the police... Good Times..

Oh yeah, On a side note. I had my bike just 1 week, did my 600 mile maintanence/oil change on Monday. They found a screw in the tire and the tire was replaced (Tire warranty) This event happended on Tuesday, the very next day, Yes, I know two flats in two days.... Hurray for me http://txsbr.com/bb/images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif

Sounds like you shouldn't have been a douche.

Being a douche isn't illegal. Arresting somebody for something that isn't illegal is far beyond douchey.

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Originally Posted by Dudley Dawson

Being a douche isn't illegal. Arresting somebody for something that isn't illegal is far beyond douchey.

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And yet if he hadn't acted like a jerk, I'm guessing he would have survived just fine. I take every story like this with a large grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by MadMonkey

And yet if he hadn't acted like a jerk, I'm guessing he would have survived just fine. I take every story like this with a large grain of salt.

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So you just automatically think that I was being a jerk of some sort?

Ok, put yourself in my situation. You have a flat tire, the officer gives you a very small window to get it resolved before he says he will tow your car to the pound?

He has you put in hand cuffs to ensure that you can't get anyone there to help you, then tows your car away, without giving you an oppertunity to resolve the issue yourself. The pig was and is a c0ck suck3r. They violated my 4th amendment rights. Illegal search and seisure. I did nothing wrong. and even if I was a "Douche" like stated above its not against the law to have an attitude. You'd think someone with their vast intellegence as our lovely Dallas Police Department would understand that someone with a flat tire might be a little upset with how their day was going.

I've already contacted the ACLU and various other organizations. We will see how long they keep their jobs.

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Originally Posted by MiataMike

So you just automatically think that I was being a jerk of some sort?

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No, I always give the benefit of the doubt. But then I read your first post...

Wow. That is 8 different kinds of messed up.

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Originally Posted by MadMonkey

No, I always give the benefit of the doubt. But then I read your first post...

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Please enlighten me as to what is in my first post.

http://papersplease.org/hiibel/case.html



Is Refusal to Show ID 'Probable Cause'?

This is the crux of the issue before the Supreme Court. Dudley Hiibel believes it isn't because of that pesky old Bill of Rights. Let's review a couple of those rights, shall we?
The Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
In other words, Dudley Hiibel was unreasonably searched and seized because he refused to show his ID. The argument that not showing ID makes for 'Probable Cause' is not only laughable, but clearly un-Constitutional. In addition, the mandatory showing of ID is nothing less than compulsory self-incrimination, which also flies in the face of the Bill of Rights.
Safety

In this post-9/11, War on Terrorism America of ours, there are those who want us to sacrifice our liberty for safety. One of the arguments made in favor of refusing to show 'the papers' an arrest-able offence is that the police need to know who they are dealing with when they are conducting an investigation. Although this sounds reasonable so long as you don't think about it too hard, showing one's ID on demand to the police is something that is ripe for abuse.
Do we want to live in a society where the police are conducting background checks whenever a citizen is merely suspected of possibly doing something wrong?
What else does a police officer need to know in order to feel safe while he asks you questions? Your medical history? Perhaps a DNA sample would be in order. Home ownership status? Your tax records?
Clearly what your ID says (assuming you have one) has no bearing on a Terry Stop. We have no National ID Card and therefore the idea that we're supposed to have any 'papers' to show in the first place is un-American. The police already have the power to pat down someone who is Terry Stopped if they feel threatened... what else do they possibly need to know in order to conduct a Terry Stop? The Terry Stop is not supposed to be a fishing expedition, but a legal way for the police to see if there is anything worth investigating to start with.
A policeman's seeing one's ID isn't making anyone any safer. It is however an invasive search of one's person that violates the very heart of the 4th and 5th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution.
If we allow demagogues to change the very nature of the way we live so long as they shout '9/11' or 'terrorism' as they strip us of our rights, then we all lose and the bad guys win. As Benjamin Franklin clearly pointed out over two centuries ago, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Michael, You should have at least showed some ID. As yes you can be taken in for failure to ID. Yes you ran into the crappy cops, but remember not all are bad and everyone has bad days. Just next time show them some ID so they don't have any reason to jack with you. Worst case if they did write you a ticket you could go to court and fight it.
MadMonkey, If you have ever had a nail in a bike tire then you would understand why he was pissed. I have and at damn near $200 a pop it will get you blood boiling as well as not wanting to ride on it. Yes if he was not told what he was being arrested for and the fact that they could plainly see that he was having problems with the bike then they did a no no. Any cop with half a brain would tell you that and would try to help versus being a dick. It sounds like it was defused till the sargant showed up and had to throw his weight around.

Patriot Act. :/

I would tend to agree that if you hadn't stood your ground so firmly, nothing bad would likely have happened... but it's an assumption. Your first post is written with your post "victim of authority abuse" googles on, so I'm sure that the paraphrasing makes this out to be a simplified version of what really happened. -But then, they did bring a bunch of guys out.

That said, I always think it's bullshit that we are at a place where people in positions of authority are allowed to expect that we neuter our human responses, out of some distorted view of what respect it. Respect is not fear. People CONSTANTLY confuse the too. We should not fear law enforcement, and we should not be expected to fear the consequences of continuing to act like the victim of a string of unfortunate events (like above). The fact is, if you "yessir, no sir, thank you sir" your ass off, cops don't feel the need to get you for much unless you have genuinely done something wrong. That is not how it's supposed to be, not how it should be, and not the intent or the letter of the law. It's a ridiculous fact of the world we live in. It's not just police officers that expect silent obedience in their presence, but it's pretty universal for a very disproportionate number of them.

I'll be interested to see how (on this forum) fast this boils down to some respect for guys who put their lives on the line discussion. It's not disrespectful in all cases to stand by your rights. Paraphrasing the story during recollection (particularly after going through the experience) is going to distort the phrasing, intention and especially attitudes involved in what was going on in this situation. Regardless of attitude, a cop pulled strings, called other people and intentionally delayed things until he got the desired outcome. It's an abuse of power, and I doubt it's much less. Sure Mike's summary reads like he might have just bowed up at the very beginning without provocation, but we don't know that's what happened.

Although it's obvious there is more to that story in the details regarding how it went down... it's pretty obvious that at least one police officer was more concerned with showing this punk who was boss, than they actually were with doing their jobs. 7 of them, and not one read him is rights? 7 of them, and not one of them thought "well this is a stupid fucking waste of time, tell the guy to get his bike over to that shoulder/parking lot/burning 'massage' parlor, I have better shit to do"? 7 of them and not one told him what was, could be or would be arrested for? 7 of them. 7 of them, just to get his bike off the road, and get this guy to jail? The fact that there was 7 of them at all, means that either Mike left out the part where he brandished a weapon, offered cop number one a licking of his meat stick or the radio flyer wagon of cocaine he was dragging behind him. Oh, it could also mean that they were a bunch of power tripping assholes, that just wanted to have the last word. There aren't a lot of scenarios that would call for 7 of them to be involved. It's not as if this was a felony stop. This is a "crime" that carries a max fine of $200. In fact that charge basically defines him as someone who was traveling by foot in the roadway, or a person entering the roadway and/or standing at the roadway for the purpose of signaling cars, soliciting and ride, soliciting employment or contributions. His bike was broken down, it's a bullshit charge, and every cop there knew it. They figured out which one they could book him in on and did it. I don't see how based on the actions of 7 officers, assuming there was no weapon, threat, organized crime warrant, known drug kingpin aliases and the story of a guy who's pissed off equals clearly it happened because you were a jackass about it. Could it have been avoided being overly gracious cattle... most likely. Should it be a requirement... no. I'd love it if there were a free country around here for people to both defend AND be able to live in under the rights that were defended. -But I'm a century or two late for that I guess.

Apparently this story annoyed me somehow.

-and so much happens when I attempt a dis-jointed rant while trying to finish up work for an unreasonable client. Read every fifth point and maybe I had something worthwhile to say.

Sure there is more to the story, Of course this all took course over more than 2 hours. (Can you say harrasment)

The only thing even remotely disrespecfull was when I told him I didn't need the government to handle my business I was perfectly cabable of handling this issue on my own.

The only thing I did was stand my ground that no they would not tow my bike that was my statement from the beginning. It was turned into a pissing of match by the original officer. Yes I can and Yes I will tow your bike. It was a power trip for them to do that. and hold me there for 2 hours while they waited for the wrecker to get there. As soon as it was loaded on the trailer where I could see it they put me in the car and drove away.

I was pretty nice about it all up until the point I was put in handcuffs; and at that point I was down right pissed. And I then started talking trash. I mean really what were they going to charge me with. Funny how going to jail will get you to say some things you normally wouldn't

Could I have avoided the situation, Sure, I could have not driven over a nail two days in a row. $500 worth of tires in two days; and I wasn't even upset about that. I was actually relieved to a point. Concidering I allowed a sales-weasle to talk me into buying the wheel/tire insurance so the tires won't cost me a dime, just time and inconvenience.

^slowclap.

Everyone knows that if you meekly accept whatever abuse an officer feels like dishing out, you'll most likely part with nothing more than a ticket (which you may or may not have earned). Just like the school bully usually wouldn't beat you up if you gave him your lunch money. The point is, nobody ever taught this generation of law enforcement officers that they're public servants. No, that doesn't mean I expect them to pick up my dry cleaning. It means they ought to display a healthy respect for the citizens they "protect and serve."

As for them putting their lives on the line, I'd wager that one major source of the danger cops face is standing on the side of a busy freeway, whether it's to help a stranded motorist or to write a ticket. In this instance, seven different cops chose to do this for no other reason than to mess with a guy because they didn't like his attitude.

BOTH sides are in the wrong here. The formal charge is BS. You were not a pedestrian OR in the roadway. You did violate Texas Penal Code, Chapter 38, Section 38.02.: Failure to identify. Best you can do now is wait and have your day in court. Best of luck to you.

http://iowabiz.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8...2b80970b-320wi

you'll win but get nothing out of it, the cop will get payed over time for showing up.

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Originally Posted by farphle

. You did violate Texas Penal Code, Chapter 38, Section 38.02.: Failure to identify. .

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I disagree with your assesment of that law. Failure to identify would indicate that I never gave them my name. It doesn't not state that I have to show them my ID card. Also I am not charged with this. See below the fourth and fifth amendment. Also read Dudley Hiibel's Vs. Nevada

http://papersplease.org/hiibel/index.html


CHAPTER 38. OBSTRUCTING GOVERNMENTAL OPERATION
§ 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.
(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:
(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.
(c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:
(1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07

The Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So they towed your bike. I guess he won. Next time try being respectful and your bike wouldn't have been impounded and you wouldn't have went to jail. I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is. You don't screw with the PoPo, because they will have your number. I too had an issue almost exactly like this some 25 years ago when I rode my bike to Fort Lauderdale during Spring Break. I had just dropped off a chick that I had given a ride to and pulled into the median to strap her helmet back on the bike. Up pulled a PoPo and the conversation was very similar to yours. The difference was that when they told me they would tow my bike, I asked for a break and was apologetic, even though I had done NOTHING wrong. I was released with a warning that if they saw me out again I'd go to jail, so I went back to my hotel and partied there. Was it right? I didn't think so, I was sober, obeying the laws and was doing nothing wrong. But at least it didn't ruin/waste my whole day, and I didn't have to return to fight anything in court.

Bottom line, you sound like you took an aggressive and possible dis-respectful stance, and they decided to screw you over. I'm sorry it happened to you. While you may not see it now, you probably contributed to your troubles.