Which one would be better on a 1.8 99-00 Miata engine? I'm thinking track car not street.
Printable View
Which one would be better on a 1.8 99-00 Miata engine? I'm thinking track car not street.
I've seen both kick my butt on the track but I would have to say the supers seem slightly more economical and if they fail you can still drive the car home by undoing the belt.
I have a 1.8 with a M45 SC, and inter-cooled. I haven't driven a turbo set up so just speaking what I know.
I do have a very smooth power band, it pulls hard all the way to red-line. Pretty much instant power but very controllable.
My 2 cents for what it's worth. :burnrubr:
I've been thinking about going with the sc bc of how diff it is to keep a turbo engine cool. What's a great super charger and don't you have to tune it? And is it hard to tune?
I have the Jackson racing M45 with a power card setup. Once it was installed and the timing advanced, there is no tuning. Just 93 octane gas and hit it! I know the M62(more power than the M45) is out there and I know there's a cold side one out there too. As far as the best one..I'd refer to Gary @trackdog, the man is a freaking genius!
m45 is for kids, i have a m62 on my 99, stock block and 335cc with adaptronic ecu, puts of 245hp and 220ftlb, my power band is smooth on paper but violent in the car.
what you have to do first is ask your self do you want to have a lot of bad ass power and deal with emissions bs every year or do you want mhm power and not have to. if it's really a track car you do option 1 and only drive it to the track if you have to, my inception sticker is 2 year out of date but my reg. is spot on.
limit is going to be your trans as the 99 5speed start to brake after 200hp
Well damn ha I want to reach that 245 hp and 220 tq but that emissions suck. Is there a more heavy duty transmission you could get so it doesn't eat away at it over 200hp?
I wouldn't say for kids but to each his own. Sounds like your car is pretty badass. I don't track my car and I have plenty of power for the street. I have no issues with passing any emissions testing. I use a very simple set up and it works for what I need. :D
How much did your sc cost? The m45.Quote:
Originally Posted by titanescape
Around 3k with the powercard. I'm not sure how much install would cost. I got a bunch of stuff done at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon-92 miata
Ok cool not bad.
If you are out Mckinney way, let me know and you can drive her and see how the "kid" SC feels. :)
Sounds awesome I'm south of ft worth. Send a message where you want to meet and I'll see what I can do
i would post video but the cam mount gets pulled off center in the first lap from the massive gs, true story.
the car is stripped to 2300 full tank and driver with the best suspension on the market. ran 1.29 at hallete before suspension and a better drive in my car ran 1.28.5.
with power card i dynoed 200, after ecu and tune 245. don't get power card go straight to a ecu, there is a megasquirt for the 99 and the other option is adaptronic. as for a trans, get a mazdaspeed 6 speed, not a 01+ 6speed, has to be a msm and a 3.63 rear gear but the 6speed is the most impotent.
a mp62, fmic and all the stuff you need for under 5k, not knocking titanescape but do not waste your time on a 45. max power of a 45 on a 99 is about 170hp and thats after a lot of extra work and parts.
Right on I'll look into that but are you saying put a Mazdaspeed 6 speed onto a 99 5 speed?
[QUOTE=jeff_man;231679]i would post video but the cam mount gets pulled off center in the first lap from the massive gs, true story.
Haha...massive G's!!! (gotta love the inside joke from your retardation lol)
Jeff_man....not taking it as a knock. You have a lot more built into yours than I do, that's just a fact! Mine's a 96 with the m45, air to water inter-cooler, advanced timing and JR Headers. I did some suspension work as well. I've never had it dyno'd so I have no idea how much HP I'm getting. All I know is when someone thinks they can get all up on my ass, I hit it and C-YA!!! That's what makes me happy!
It's hard to sometimes understand what jeff man is trying say when you don't use the translator tool this forum offers to help decipher jeffs cryptic code, but afterusing it I think what he was trying to say get the 6 speed trans from msm, you don't take take the internals from the 6 speed and put them into the 5 speed it's impossible. And recomends the 3.63 for the rear end (diff) put most importantly to have the trans when going up to the power lvls he talking about. At least that's what the translator tool deciphered out...lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jon-92 miata
Haha I know it's impossible but I thought I was mixed up somewhere
After you have been here a while, you will learn to speak Jeffanese. It's similar to Yoda talk...;)
I love my intercooled M45 Supercharger with full ECU. It puts about 185 to the wheels.
Now where is Trey to tell us how we all must switch to turbos? ;-)
Why not just go buy a MSM drivetrain and be done with it. :D
Here we go again...
I found a better one. ::Banana::Quote:
Originally Posted by NC Eunos
Eventually when I get some money I'll want to go the forced induction route. When I was first looking into things I had decided on a supercharger. But after awhile I switched to FM's entry level Voodoo setup. I don't want something that provides a ton of power. And I consider reliability far more important than actual horsepower too. Both supers and turbos have their ups and downs, it can be a tough choice.
anything in front of the trans on a msm suck for the track. they have been very little progression cracking the ecu other then full standalone (no obd2) which in texas you can't have unless your in a no emission county, they only give you 4 psi peek and retards 1/2 the time your in boost. magma has put a lot of money in his msm and it's a very nice msm but it's not a track car and never will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio-Active
not saying m45 are not bad for the street but for ~$500 more a 62 is better for a track car.
Hahaha
It takes a lot more than $500...Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man
1999 - 2000 Jackson Racing M45 Supercharger Kit Price: $2,350.00Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeedracer
1999 - 2000 MP62 Supercharger System From MOSS 2,995.00
~$650 difference if you want to get technical. then get it without power cards for some $$$ off.
People who make threads like this typically lack the knowledge to reap the rewards of turbonianomicon with a track car. If I had to do it all over again, I'd have the same power-plant in my car...I like the torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
With these cars it doesn't really matter how you get to 225-250whp, it just matters that you get there for the track. If my car were a street car, I'd still have 300whp on the boost controller. If you're not building a motor, considering 230wtq the absolute max for your rods, so make your decision from there.
There isn't much to go wrong in a turbo, how many millions of miles do 18-wheelers put on them in their lifetime? When you use an oil feed restricter turbo's rarely fail, I have about 25-track hours and 15,000 miles on mine and it's never left me stranded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nails
And the economical part? Dude your car rocks and is sick fast. It's my favorite sound at Hallett followed by the Beast. But you spent tens, if not hundreds, of dollars to get it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
Knowing what I know, I could build the turbo parts for about $3800 without the intercooler(manifold, DP, WG, BOV, turbo w/ v-band turbine. The reason it cost me so much is because the first kit I had didn't cut the mustard and had to build it twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nails
What are your thoughts on FM's entry Voodoo kit?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
diy > fm kits, also get a real ecu and not a piggy backQuote:
Originally Posted by BFPW
Out of curiosity, besides the extra cost, why are the FM kits inferior?Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man
I'm not really looking for 250-300whp, so I'm not so sure that I would need a real ECU. I would be happy with 150-160hp at the wheels.
If you're thinking track car, learning to drive is #1. Suspension and handling is #2. Power is #3.
If you want to know everything there is to know about miata's and turbocharging, then go to miataturbo.net and read.
If you only want to make 150-160whp in your miata, it can be done with factory 10:1 pistons, factory mazdaspeed intake cam, bolt on intake, header, catback and a real ecu. It's tried, proven and damn reliable.
If you've got you're mind set on SC, then don't even consider the M45 as it's no longer being made for any year miata. You're options are Rotrex/Kraftwerks, SOT/TDR MP62 and Moss Motors MP62. Each kit varies in it's own way and has it's pros and cons
Inferior is too strong of a word. I like V-band hot-parts, FM doesn't think it's necessary. with the Trackspeed Engineering Inco-stud hardware you can get around problems with the turbo-manifold seal problem. After that it's little things that I get on my "golden unicorn' turbo parts: 1000rpm-earlier target boost/max torque, external wastegate, and I don't like silicone intercooler pipes but that's not a very big deal. Their kits are really good, and they have a new kit on the way with plumbing for a turbine-mounted EWG.Quote:
Originally Posted by BFPW
Do you know about Abe/ARTech in Wylie? He makes penomenal schedule-40 manifolds and anything else you want for a turbo car and he's one of the few people I'd spend money with on a turbo set-up for the track.
Ask anyone who runs stand alone engine management and they'll agree that you NEED it. It will make the car drive better than it came from the factory, and I'm not joking.
There's one theme that still runs true about the turbo SC debate and very simply put, you can drop your car off at TDR and get it back track ready and track reliable.
Umm, that's what I thought. I was wrong on both cases. Just got back from the dyno. Powercards are a waste of money (may be ok for street only). I'll sell you mine..Quote:
Originally Posted by BFPW
Agree with the first part, debatable on the second. Be ready to spend a boatload there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
Wags is correct. Seat-time, suspension, power (and brakes) in that order..
If I were to do it over, I'd go rotrex (or just buy a bimmer).
My car does need a new suspension, but I've already got all of that figured out. I'm just trying to sort out the power options now. And yes, I'll upgrade the suspension before I get the power.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwag
I didn't know 150-160 naturally aspirated power could be achieved on the Miata at a reasonable price. Reading Miata.net, everyone seems to say that it's incredibly expensive. But I don't really know.
You have a really good point about TDR being close by, and that does give the SC the upperhand in the D/FW area in a sense. Reliability, not power, is my #1 concern. Having a nice shop nearby for maintenance is a plus.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg