Rant: Town North Mazda Sales Department

In '97 I had a simular experiance with Freeman Pontiac. Sales guy, wanted me to sign a contract stating if he could find the car I wanted, that I would then purchase it that night! What?

Then he wanted me to let him copy a credit card prior to test driving a TransAm! What?

Then he wanted my keys to have his guy look at my trade, I said OK. Anyway, he had a White one with Lumbar Seats (of which I didn't really want) Anyway we couldn't get within $2000 of each other. When he asked me what I was willing to pay, I told him $24,500 was my top dollar. He laughed and told me I wouldn't be able to find one at that price, since the '98's were brand spanking new.

I decided to leave, and they wouldn't let me, as they still had my keys. So, I went and found my keys and my car and left, all the while they were trying to stop me. I was real close to calling 911 and/or beating the crap out of that salesman.

BTW, the next day I purchase an '98 T/A from Buz Post for ....get this... $24,500.

I also remember hearing about Van Chevrolet doing the same thing to a woman, and it made the news.

Some people.

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Originally Posted by TurboDuane

BTW, the next day I purchase an '08 T/A from Buz Post for ....get this... $24,500.

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Pontiac still makes Trans Ams? :scratch: Freakin sweet! Where can I sign up to buy one? Are they nice?

S.

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Originally Posted by TurboDuane

In '97 I had a simular experiance with Freeman Pontiac.

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BTW, the next day I purchase an '08 T/A from Buz Post for ....get this... $24,500.

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Originally Posted by srivendel

Pontiac still makes Trans Ams? :scratch: Freakin sweet! Where can I sign up to buy one? Are they nice?

S.

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Yeah... I'm still trying to figure out how he bought an '08 T/A back in '97.

RJ

I've been on the other side. I sold new cars from 1992-1994. (Ford and then Mazda) I was always honest with my customers. Get caught in a lie and you lose all credibility. In fact most salesman I worked with were on the up and up but that was my experience. I'm sure their are plenty of shady salemen out there.

You have to remember, car salesmen typically get paid only on commission. It's in their best interest to not waste their time with tire kickers and joy riders. (Making no judgements on apex2apex and his friends) I can tell you though there are lots of people who will waste your time.

We had qualifying questions we used to determine the seriousness of a customer. Only "Positive" answers would get you to the next step. A no and we would work out a way to cut that customer loose to go get another. It's a numbers game.

I can pin point the actual time I was done as a car salesman. I had a guy come in with his wife telling me they wanted to look at a 626.

FIRST QUESTION: Do you have a trade in and is it here? In this case, no trade in. OK. Move on.

If he had a trade in but it wasn't there, ask them to go get it, give them a card and go get another customer. You can not sell a car if you can not appraise his trade in.

If he had a trade in ask them this question. If I can get you ENOUGH for your trade, are you willing to trade it in? Simple question. Yes or no. If they're serious, it should be yes. If not, address their objections and/or move on.

SECOND QUESTION. OK. How do you want the car equiped? OK. Found one with all the equipment he wanted. But he really wants a white one. OK. Found it.

THIRD QUESTION: If you like how the car drives AND we can get the price right, would you be ready to take this car home today?

Simple question. If no, why not and try to address the issue. If the issue can not be resolved give him a card and go get another. This guy said let's drive the car. I repeat my question. He agrees that if he likes the car AND we get the price right, he'll drive it home today. Great!

Test Drive.

SECOND QUESTION: Did you like how the car drove. Yes. So if we can get the price right, you'll drive the car home today? Sure!

Bring them into my office. I tell them I'll go see what I can do. He stops me and says, Wait. I have the dealer invoice and my Credit Union says I shouldn't pay more than $300 over invoice.

OK. I'll see what I can do.

Go into sales managers office. He tries to send me back with $300 off of the sticker. I argue that this guy has invoice and his CU says he shouldn't pay more than $300 over invoice. Since we had "$500 in the trunk" (undisclosed dealer kickback on the 626s at that time) we were looking at a $800 profit. Not a slam dunk but an ok profit. Salesmanager agrees and I'm thinking this will be a quick an easy sale.

Great news! I explained to my sales manager how educated you were and got him to not waste your time or mine. He agreed to sell you the car at $300 over invoice! Just sign here and I'll get you back to the finance office. The guy is shocked and says he isn't signing.

I'm like WTF???

You told me that was the car you wanted and if I could get you a price you'd agree on, you'd drive it home today. I just did that.

At that point, his wife agreed with me. He did say all that. :thumleft:

He said, Let me handle this! She shut up but gave him an icy cold stare and I can bet what she really wanted to do was this. ::Bop::

So I asked what the problem was? He then proceeded to pull out another invoice. It was for a Honduh Accord. He said their cost is the same as the Mazda and he would rather have the Honduh. So he lied to me and wasted my time on a car he had no intention of buying.

Actually the ironic thing is in my experience buyers are liars. Everyone thinks all car salesmen are liars but the reverse is the truth.

I've had people tell me their credit was fine only to have the finance office kick them out because they couldn't get the loan approved. I've had people tell me they have money down only to not have it when needed. I've had people tell me all kinds of things only to find out they just plain lied to my face.

This doesn't excuse Apex2Apex's experience. The certainly could have handled it much better. However, being a car salesman isn't easy. Especially if you need to sell cars to eat. They go through a lot of bullshit to sell 10-12 cars a month if they're lucky. It's probably worse now than when I sold cars. The interweb wasn't even a twinkle in Al Gore's eye in '94. Now, anyone can know dealer invoice and it comes down to how much profit a customer will let you make. As a positive though, it's easier to get more people with bad credit approved than when I sold cars and interest rates are much lower.

The profit in a dealership isn't in sales, it's service.

Good stuff. Good times, good times..

I too, did the cars sales gig back in the day.

Customers DO lie. After awhile, I expected it. Got a trade? No. Cool, lets grind for a few hours on price, drop our pants, then you decide that you do have a trade and get pissed when we cannot give you 8k on your upside down pos?

Good times, good times.

Loved the old "keys" bit. We called it glue. Get something, anything, keys, credit card, DL, kid, whatever to keep em there...

Old favorite was the "$100 handshake", followed up immediatly by the "scraper". Good times, good times.

We used to bet each other on how much time it would take to get the customers to "hump the bed" (get em in the bed of a truck and jump up and town to "test" the suspension) or "suck on the tailpipe" (have them get on all fours at the rear of the car and check underneath). Good times.

Yes, salespeople and customers both lie. There are also good ones on both sides. Don't put up with any of the games and walk.

I would never try and "pre-qualify" anyone based on age, race, gender, clothing, or what they drove. Lots of salemen did and I would not, and I got the sales.

My all time favorite was when a family of asians came rolling in a total rustbucket '68 caddy with out of state plates. It was a real pos, and loaded with what looked like all of their possessions. Strangely, the dozen or so salespeople that minutes before were falling all over themselves, smoking and joking, where nowhere to be found.

I jumped at the "up" and found them to be 11 percenters (at the time, 11% of customers paid whatever the asking price was. They did not like to haggle).

Put them in a brand new 4Runner (they paid cash, actually travellers cheques), They were moving cross country, and the pos was giving them problems. I helped them load their stuff in front of the amazed salesmen, and took home the single biggest commission for the month on a one car sale (including spiffs).

Good times indeed.

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Originally Posted by SixAce

Loved the old "keys" bit. We called it glue. Get something, anything, keys, credit card, DL, kid, whatever to keep em there...

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I have to ask: does that crap actually work? Did either of you ever manage to close a sale because you held a customer hostage?

The reason I ask – back in ’99, Sewell Cadillac tried the same thing on me. I was there looking at a used ’99 Miata (“owned and lightly driven by the owner’s wife” :rolleyes: ), and I was planning on trading in my ’98 Honda Prelude. I made the mistake of givng them my keys to appraise my trade-in. When we couldn’t come to an agreement on numbers, they gave me the runaround on giving me back my keys. After I asked the sales manager for my keys the second time and he gave me some line of BS, I used the receptionist’s phone to call the police and report my car stolen. The idiot managed to find my keys very quickly when the officer showed up, and to this day I will never buy so much as a quart of oil from a Sewell dealership.

Ah yes....

Good times, good times. :clap:

I understand everyone has a mortgage to pay. But what about treating every customer with respect whether he/she decides to buy the car that day or not?

I know sales get paid on commisson. But if I encounter a saleman that's friendly and not pushy for a sale, I will save his business card for future purchases and refer friends and family to him.

I was all set to buy a leftover $17k 03 Miata back in 2004. But I got a test drive of the RX-8, ended up changing my mind and bought the 8.

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Originally Posted by altiain

I have to ask: does that crap actually work? Did either of you ever manage to close a sale because you held a customer hostage?

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My dealerships never used strong arm tactics. I worked a Freeman in Hurst (Now Hiley) and the Toyota dealer down the street used strong arm tactics. They had one entrance and if a customer tried to leave, the sales manager would block the door.

We had customers "escape" and come to our place where we had a much more pleasant approach to sales.

I honestly couldn't and still can't understand how that works. I guess they prey on weak individuals. Sad. :(

My best day was when a young family came in driving a beat up Chevy Luv or some other small pickup. This thing was so bad the gas in the tank was worth more than the truck.

Well they were straight up honest. Right away they told me they were in bankruptcy but had permission from the court to purchase a new car to better suit their family. They needed it as the had a kid and one on the way.

They were a really nice family that were having tough times. Anyway, we found a brand new base model Protege. We didn't dicker on price. We just took them to finance. It was still hard to get them approved and we had to discount the car to the point were the banks would buy it. We did get them in the new car that would service them through their tough times. I didn't make a killing but I was very satisfied knowing I helped out some folks that really needed it. :D

I also loved showing the Miatas. That's were my fanaticism with Miatas began. I remeber have the 93LE and the 94M on the show room floor. They were EXPENSIVE!!! I also sold the first Millenia in DFW. Good commission there as it wasn't being discounted.

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Originally Posted by apex2apex

I understand everyone has a mortgage to pay. But what about treating every customer with respect whether he/she decides to buy the car that day or not?

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I agree you should have been shown more respect but I also understand that salesmen want to sell cars, not demo vehicles to everyone who walks in. The other thing is dealerships try to limit demo drives. They add miles to the cars and pose a risk at being damaged. If you buy a "new" car do you want one that has several hundred miles on it or had body work done or paint chips? On rare or expensive vehicles, they often require a credit report, an agreed upon selling price and a signed contract dependant on the test drive. We had lots of people who wanted to test drive the FD RX-7. We usually shied away from it until we knew we had a serious buyer.

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Originally Posted by apex2apex

I know sales get paid on commisson. But if I encounter a saleman that's friendly and not pushy for a sale, I will save his business card for future purchases and refer friends and family to him.

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That's great you are so loyal to good sales people but most people aren't. Most people ditch the business card and never end up calling the salesman. Heck, I lost sales of returning customers that I initially talked to and who liked me only because they forgot my name or forgot to ask for me and I usually stapled my business card to the friggin brochure! Nope. Most customers aren't as loyal as you.

I have met exactly one car salesperson on the lot which I liked. The rest have been various iterations of the exact same moron.

A gf asked me to go car shopping with her once and I stayed out of the way and only answered questions she asked me directly. After a couple visits she's got the (used) truck picked out and asks me what she should offer. It's the only one in the color she wants in the whole damned town and she has decided this is THE truck. I told her offer $2000 below sticker, it's just a big game anyway. I told her she must be willing to walk away, do not let this be an emotional decision. I tell her the only power you have is to walk away from the deal. Don't get sucked in by anything.

This whole salesperson in control thing is crazy. They take you here, there, make you wait yadda yadda yadda. Finally we are there with the forms and closing the deal. Everytime we counter offer the sales guy picks up the phone and calls the sales manager. The third time he reached for the phone I placed my hand on the receiver so he couldn't pick it up. He looked at me like I had just kicked him in the nuts. I asked him "Do YOU sell cars?" He answered yes. I told him we had been dealing with him for days and now he was incapable of closing this deal. He assured me that was not the case. I told him it surely was as it's obvious to me he is not allowed to make decisions. If YOU can't sell the car I don't need to talk to YOU. YOU are a complete waste of my time. Get me the guy on the other end of that phone as apparently HE sells cars; you just follow directions. He was completely flabbergasted. The look on his face was priceless :clap:

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Originally Posted by apex2apex

I know sales get paid on commisson. But if I encounter a saleman that's friendly and not pushy for a sale, I will save his business card for future purchases and refer friends and family to him.

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Amen, brotha... I've found a few good salesmen and kept them in mind any time anybody tells me they're thinking about buying a new car. These guys know what they're talking about and aren't slobbering to close the deal TODAY. I've even had some of these guys give me a call to let me know they've moved on. When you find a good one, keep him (or her, I guess :rolleyes: )!

I know sales people have to make a living. But the whole "I don't want to deal with you if you aren't willing to buy today" thing is infuriating. The whole point of test driving is to determine which one you want. Almost every salesman I've ever dealt with gets flabbergasted when you say you plan on checking out other cars! Maybe it's just me, but a purchase of $20,000 or more is not something I do on impulse! I want the right car. Maybe it's yours, maybe it's not. But I won't know until I try it out!

Last year we had to replace my wife's car and she wasn't thrilled with the current crop of choices. We wanted to look at Mini's, WRX's, Tiburon's and GTI's (later she decided she really liked the Civic Si, which I suggested at the time but she wouldn't listen ;) ). What a mess! When they found out we wanted to check out the other cars, they told us to come back after we'd driven the others and then we could drive theirs. :confused: After all that, when she finally/mostly narrowed it down, the salesman couldn't (read "wouldn't") get the car in a stick. Color wasn't really even a factor, just a manual transmission. And he couldn't be bothered to find one.::Rant:: So we told him to kiss off and I found my wife a cherry '93 Prelude with 68,000 miles and paid $5k for it. Truth is, she likes it more than what we almost spent $20k on! I guess I should be grateful for lousy service, huh! :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=altiain;101988]I have to ask: does that crap actually work? Did either of you ever manage to close a sale because you held a customer hostage? QUOTE]

It works on weak people. I personally hated all the tactics. Most of the stuff I quoted as "favorites" was actually what mad the job fun...

I hated the glue with a passion, as most folks would really get pissed.

I sold cars for six months, when I was around 23. I told myself that I was going to be a stand up guy and treat the customers right. Does not quite work that way...Imagine a young couple, with kids, sitting in your office. You have their income info, their expense info, credit history, etc. Then you have to try and sell them a car for as much as possible. Payments you know are going to bury them, and a car so upside down it's scraping it's roof on the way out of the lot!

I eventually found myself fighting to get the customers the best deal, which was not good for my paycheck, or my employers. I could not do that to people.

The dealership I worked for was say, about a 7 out of 10 on the sleaze scale. If you want to see a real scumbag operation, watch the TV show "King of Cars". Also based in Vegas, where I sold cars. Towbin dealerships are 10 out of 10 on the lowlife scale.

But at least I know how to buy cars now! ...reminds me of the time I gave them my glue, which was a single key. After waiting in the office too long, I simply got in my car (with my full set of keys) and drove off to have some lunch. When I got back, the look on the salesman' face was priceless..LOL!

Or, the time I was kicked out of a Lexus dealership in NM. LOL...

Good times!

When I was shopping back in August, I went to test drive the new GTI. Nice car. I had done my homework on teh internets and knew they had the exact spec I was looking for -- a grey 4-door with the manual trans and leather. I was told that the "owner's son" had taken the car as a demo but that they could get it back for me tomorrow. ::Yikes::

Um, yeah, I went to high school with one of the Hiley Mazda kids and I know how gently he treated his demos. ::BaHump:: Thanks but no thanks. The sales manager tried to talk me into it, but he knew they had effed up by telling me the truth.

Went across the street to Honda and the rest is history.

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Originally Posted by Prova7

The rest have been various iterations of the exact same moron.

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I too find the same morons playing extras in many different areas of my life. It's very Truman Show.

S.

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Originally Posted by SixAce

Or, the time I was kicked out of a Lexus dealership in NM. LOL...

Good times!

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Details? ::Banana::

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Originally Posted by MadMonkey

Details? ::Banana::

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+1!

Enquiring minds want to know!

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Come on SixAce, the cat's out of the bag now. Might as well spill the beans.


Or would you prefer we call you a tease? ;)

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Originally Posted by black roadster

THIRD QUESTION: If you like how the car drives AND we can get the price right, would you be ready to take this car home today?

Simple question. If no, why not and try to address the issue. If the issue can not be resolved give him a card and go get another. This guy said let's drive the car. I repeat my question. He agrees that if he likes the car AND we get the price right, he'll drive it home today. Great!

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While I understand why a salesperson asks this question, let’s be a little more precise: it's not asked in order to gauge "the seriousness of a customer". It's asked to gauge whether the salesperson has a chance of getting a commission today. There's a difference.

I won't walk into a dealership without being "serious" about a car. Sorry, but talking to salespeople just isn't one my favorite leisure-time activities. ;) But if I'm buying a car, I'm probably going to want to look at several makes/models that I have on a short list of candidates, and I'll want to spend some time with each of them in order to make a good decision. That's why I walk into a dealership in the first place -- to look at a car and test drive it to see if I would keep it on my short list of potentials.

Maybe your dealership is the first that I've walked into, but I know that there are 2 other makes/models that I'm going to look at before making my buying decision. The answer to your "qualifying questions we used to determine the seriousness of a customer" will be "No, I will not likely buy your car today... not before I comparison shop the other cars on my list". So you’ll hand me your business card, and send me - a serious customer - on my way.

When I bought our 1999 CR-V, I checked out two other cars at two other dealers. They all spent time with me, talking about the car and the dealerships’ services and give me the opportunity to test drive their vehicles. Since I only bought one car, two of those sales associates did not get my business; one – the Honda representative -- did. Did I waste the other two salespersons’ time? I suppose you could look at it that way…

When I bought my 1999 Miata, I went to a BMW dealership first to look at a Z3. When he asked that "probing" question, I told him I would also be looking at a Miata. He pretty much dismissed me, without letting me even sit in a Z3, much less test drive it. I went to the Mazda dealership, test drove the Miata, and bought it. So did the BMW salesperson miss a sales opportunity? I suppose you could look at it that way…