Now that the opposing view is at the front of your mind, go back and re-read the article to remind yourself why the SCCA elected the route they took.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
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Now that the opposing view is at the front of your mind, go back and re-read the article to remind yourself why the SCCA elected the route they took.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
I think a blend of what we have now with some minor tweaks would work.
- Bar on one end
- Cat back exhaust
- Shocks without remotes
- Tires 140
- Wheel size 1" +/- in size
- Camber adjustments (new cars are designed to understeer)
After several re-reads and a looking at the thoughts of a few prominent folks that have made it to the interwebs, I'm getting more comfortable with the general idea of the Street plan. I still like unrestricted sway bars, prefer a one-bar rule, and I am 100% behind the camber allowances and mild shock restrictions. The number of cars that become interesting with camber allowances is exciting. The Yaris was a different animal when I did the camber bolts on it, though it still ate front tires. :)
I still can't imagine the Yaris was all that fun to drive in any form. I had a new (4000 miles on the odometer) Corolla as a rental this past weekend, and it was hands down the worst car I've driven in several years. Shitty ergonomics, steering that was number than you rmouth after a root canal, and it had to downshift to 3rd to maintain 78 mph climbing the pass up into Sedona.
I like the idea as is. A one bar rule is great if you run run springs and str like suspension mods. I see Robert's point on the sway bars. Maybe use a percentage rule instead of a hard figure like the 1.6 proposal. Any way, I am ready to start today.
@Ian - It definitely wasnt as much fun as the NC, but it was 106 whp and 2150 lbs, so suprisingly nimble. A corolla is a pig by comparison.
If Faceplant is any indicator there are strong feeling for both sides of this proposal.
Ya gotta wonder how much of the original proposal will make it to a parking lot near you.
I currently agree with lostlorin, but I may change that stance later on today. ;-)
Proposal: http://www.solomatters.com/2013/03/s...sal-explained/
Feedback here: http://www.sebscca.com
Wow, that didn't take long. Couldn't stay away, eh? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by MX5_Miata
The updated proposal is out. 140TW tires in 2014 going to 200 TW in 2015. Sway bars and shock rules stay the same as current stock rules. Allow camber adjustment for strut cars. Exhaust must exit in the stock location. A class for SS on R-comps, but they have to get 35 entrants at nationals to keep it. I like the new proposal it addresses the major problems I had with the original proposal.
http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...k-may-solo.pdf
The revised proposal makes think they should just change the R in the "road tire" to "race" and be done with it.
Camber rules are good I think. Im going to assume that half the letters submitted were about SSR and the other half about reservoir shocks.
If version 2 passes as is, would that mean the elimination of the regional "T" Tire class?
What would be the point of keeping "T" other than SP classes on Street tires?
What would that do to competition level on regional events?
Would you still end up with 2-3 people in D-Street and 2-3 drivers in G-Street....?
I like it, in-general. I thought the no-remote-canisters was a good idea, but not a big deal. I wonder if they will permit more cars to be classified as SSR, should they request it. Several AS and BS (even a few CS) cars can be considered competitive with SS at local events, though I doubt the SS top dogs would be threatened at Nats by a BS S2K or a CS MS-R.
Quote:
Originally Posted by general default
It would kill the regional tire class. Almost all the cars in T class are stock prep.
I sent my letter in favor of the change, with the request that the camber kits be given to everyone or no one.
I think we could still have the regional T class, though it seems a bit pointless. Hopefully, the new Street rules would increase participation in those classes and avoid the 1 or 2 person classes.
It could be an intermediate PAX class, but I am not sure of the point. Back in my dirt bike days we had novice, intermediate, and expert classes. They tended to have a lot of overlap, with the fastest novices faster than a lot of the intermediates, and the fastest intermediates faster than a lot of the experts. Do you want to be a fast intermediate or a slow expert?
I am not recommending it, just saying it’s an option.
If anything, we could use more classes. I saw a few people leaving the last SCCA event without trophies.
That ain't right. Everyone deserves a trophy!
In all honesty, I think SCCA could use a complete top-to-bottom revamp with a NASA style points ladder. There are far too many classes that have almost identical performance potential, but are separated by some artificial barrier ("No, this class is for roadsters. THAT one is for rally cars. The other one is for fat front drivers."). Trim it down to 10 classes, 15 at most, clearly separated by actual on course performance.
But that's never gonna happen. Not in my lifetime, anyway.
I just looked into it, and without Karts, Tire or Novice, there are 35 classes in SCCA. All I have to do is pick an obscure class and I can get a guaranteed win since most everyone is in an ST class. I'm actually excited to see the street tires in the stock class, maybe I'll leave my next miata alone.
Everyone wants to run in "I" class. A class "I" can win.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDmiata
NASA style classing is great for the guy that wants to run the car he has with the mods he wants, no getting bumped to SSM for cutting the hood. As I understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
For the guy going for a national championship (not me of course) it’s got to be a nightmare of endless mods and points. Where at SCCA if someone is going for a championship they just do all the mods allowed for the class.
SCCA must be doing something right, as they tend to get 2X the turnout for local events vs. the other clubs in the area.
The regional tire class is enjoyable for me and it would be a shame to see it go. But now that the PAX values will be adjusted for street tires, this might be the time I jump into X class.
Go to scca.com and check out the May Fastrack for the revisions to the Street classing dilemma. All seems to have worked out for the best for everyone, even SS (now SSR with R-comps).
Can anyone decipher if the proposal is going to have a "Street" version of SS, or only the SSR? Where will a Z06 go if it is on 200+TW?
My understanding is they would have 2 classes SS and SSR (R-comps). SSR would go away if they fall below min. numbers at Nat.
SS - Current SS minus Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06, Chevrolet Corvette C6, and Dodge Viper. Added Honda S2000 CR. Added some exlusion list cars like the BMW Z8, Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (2009-13), Dodge Viper (NOC), Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca (2012-13), and Ford Mustang Cobra R.
AS - Current AS plus Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06, Chevrolet Corvette C6, and Dodge Viper from SS. Minus Chevrolet
Corvette C5 (non-Z06), BMW 1M Coupe, and BMW Z4 (Coupe & Roadster).
BS - Current BS plus Chevrolet Corvette C5 (non-Z06), BMW 1M Coupe, and BMW Z4 (Coupe & Roadster). Mazda Miata MS-R, Pontiac Solstice ZOK, and Porsche Boxster up from CS.
CS - Current CS minus Mazda Miata MS-R, Pontiac Solstice ZOK, and Porsche Boxster and slower cars moved to ES.
DS - Current DS minus RWD cars moved to FS.
ES - Current ES plus Mazda Miata (1999-2005), Toyota MR2 Spyder, Z3, BMW M Coup, and BMW M Roadster from CS.
FS - Current FS plus RWD cars from DS.
GS - All current GS/HS cars combined.
Neat....
SS for the CR really ::Censor::::Rant::
Looks like the NA Miata also gets the shaft.
STR here I come. (maybe)
How is SS bad for your car? You almost raw time SS while they are on Rcomps.
Only when they are on really old tires. I don’t think it has a chance in SS. I do understand them wanting to bury the CR, but it blows for the people that own them.
Myself, I see 3 Corvette classes, I think they will do pretty well on street tires, but the people that say they won’t be fast on street tires could be correct. I have seen Mark go pretty fast on street tires.
I agree that it will need shuffling. I also think the sub-500hp vettes will be able to adapt, especially with the latest crop of 200TW tires. I think you might end up in AS, but I don't think the C5 will do well in BS against the MS-R, ZOK and S2K's.
BS will be interesting. The MS-R, and ZOK don’t have a chance against the S2K’s they are getting buried also just not as deep as the CR. . C5 against the S2K could be close. I would put my money on the C5, but the current AS has been slower than I expected.
CR in SS is a joke lol. The minor improvements of a CR compared to the base s2k doesn't warrant 2 class bumps... AS would be more reasonable. With strut cars finally getting camber adjustment, the s2k is going to lose some advantage in BS anyway... too many drastic changes taking place at once IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
If the CR does goto SS, would that effect its STR elligibilty?
It looks like that allowance was removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by brandondan1
Robert, what class do you think is reasonable for a street tire CR?
I will be happy to write a letter. The CR does not belong in SS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
This autocross thing is serious business!
Id rather see the classing stay relatively unchanged for 2014, then adjust in 2015 after the real effect of removing r-comps is proven, rather than based on limited data. I realize the NA's are getting shafted here, but there also seem to be a lot of other entry level cars being lumped together while the vettes are in 3 classes.
Losing the camber allowance is a mistake, IMHO. Back to square one, just on street tires now.
I think the new SS is a fine place to put the CR. I'd take a CR over just about every car listed in there. I'm just curious which car everyone thinks is going to be so dominate once you throw street tires in the mix.
How is that NASA points-based classing looking now?