NC STR Project - Tires or Coilovers First?

Ok,

So many of you got to see my new NC at the Winter event last weekend. I had several people tell me that my car was rolling more than any other car out there. I couldn't tell because, while driving, I was holding on for dear life and praying that the gravitational pull of the light poles was low.

So, if you're in my shoes and already have 140 rated tires, would you drop coin for new rims and another wider set of 140 rated tires? Or would you go with the coilovers first and go from there? Since it's still relatively coldish, I'm thinking I can hold off on the tires a bit longer and go with a summer tire this summer. But if I get the suspension going ... I can have that done before the next event.

Thoughts?

MS

If you're going STR, save your pennies for wheel & tires. Keep what you have for DD.

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Originally Posted by sammm

If you're going STR, save your pennies for wheel & tires. Keep what you have for DD.

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Yeah, everyone always says go tires first. But if I'm going from 140s to 140s and my car is still bucking like a rented mule, wouldn't it make sense to solve that problem first?

Suspension for sure, the oem is way too soft, and you will get immediate seat of the pants satisfaction. Then add wider wheel/tire as the budget allows.

Honestly, drive the car as-is for a season in the Novice or Road Tire classes and learn how to drive well. A good custom alignment is a great way to dial-in the car for autox, if you have money burning a hole in your pocket. Maybe buy a second set of wheels/tires if you plan to autocross a lot so you don't shred your DD tires, but the size you'd want for STR isn't going to fit well on a stock setup.

As much as you may want to mod the car, It's better in the long run to focus on the loose nut behind the wheel. Also, you'll have a much clearer idea of what level of prep you want to go with after you've been around a bit. Realize too that STR is the largest class in autox right now, and it is stacked with top drivers and highly-prepped cars. I started running in STR the first year the class formed and I am reasonably fast, but didn't even quite crack the trophies at Nationals this year. Not saying you shouldn't run there or that you won't be competitive, but more than one person has jumped into the class head-first, then been dissapointed that they weren't anywhere near the front runners after throwing a lot of money and time at their car.

As for body roll, a sway bar will go a long way towards controlling that, and if you watch an E Stock NA you'll see that body roll isn't necessarilly slow.

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Originally Posted by strathound

Yeah, everyone always says go tires first. But if I'm going from 140s to 140s and my car is still bucking like a rented mule, wouldn't it make sense to solve that problem first?

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What 140 tires are you currently on? I thought you still had the factory tires. If so, they are not even close to the grip of the 140 tires we are talking about.

Aventador swap.

Have OZMDD drive your car for a few runs. If he is more than a second faster than you, then don't do anything to your car.

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Originally Posted by jrj512

Have OZMDD drive your car for a few runs. If he is more than a second faster than you, then don't do anything to your car.

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I'm pretty sure we all already know the answer to that one, lol. As for the competition in the STR class, I don't mind coming in last place for a while (week or two ;) )

BTW, loved the way your car handled. I realize the driver made a huge difference. But it felt way more planted than mine, having ridden/driven both.

MS

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Originally Posted by strathound

I'm pretty sure we all already know the answer to that one, lol. As for the competition in the STR class, I don't mind coming in last place for a while (week or two ;) )

BTW, loved the way your car handled. I realize the driver made a huge difference. But it felt way more planted than mine, having ridden/driven both.

MS

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2K+ suspension vs stock suspension, nuff said.

+1 on a bigger front sway bar. On my '99 I found that made a huge difference in how predictable the car cornered. On an NB, it's relatively cheap and easy to install.

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Originally Posted by EricJ

+1 on a bigger front sway bar. On my '99 I found that made a huge difference in how predictable the car cornered. On an NB, it's relatively cheap and easy to install.

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I've heard people say that you need less sway bar if you have upgraded/better suspension. True?

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Originally Posted by strathound

I've heard people say that you need less sway bar if you have upgraded/better suspension. True?

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No

Well I plan on testing that theory. I'm going to make one change at a time, drive the car for a while, then tweak again. Too many changes at once and I won't understand how each works.

Sway bars and suspension are apples to pumpkins. Also, there are totally different approaches to both. What you probably heard is that you can achieve a similar balance using more spring rate and less sway bar (which is a spring too), or less spring rate and more sway bar. But the answer to your initial question is still no, less sway bar won't make sense just because you put on better shocks and springs. You were concerned about body roll (sway), and more sway bar is the simplest correction for that.

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Originally Posted by OZMDD

Sway bars and suspension are apples to pumpkins. Also, there are totally different approaches to both. What you probably heard is that you can achieve a similar balance using more spring rate and less sway bar (which is a spring too), or less spring rate and more sway bar. But the answer to your initial question is still no, less sway bar won't make sense just because you put on better shocks and springs. You were concerned about body roll (sway), and more sway bar is the simplest correction for that.

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Right, and it was educational getting the cars up on jacks where I learned that the car already had sway bars. Upgrading them involves replacing them with a thicker bar. So yes, I'm thinking that a stiffer suspension with less travel, by itself, will reduce the body roll somewhat with the existing sway bars. If I'm taking a hard right turn, for example, and the body begins to roll to the left and the springs are stiffer, then more force will be exerted in the opposite direction by those stiffer springs.

Either way, I'll start with the springs and add the sway bars immediately after since they don't cost that much.

MS

I really think you should just get some good tires, alignment and maybe sway bars, then run a year with the car the way it is. A serious STR build is only worth 2-3 sec. (think $10K+ for that time). You will pick up a lot more just with driving time. A big thing is when you start changing the car it’s easy to make it slower because of a poor choice on spring rates or other bad decisions. At this point you will really not be able to tell if the car is handling bad because of a poor setup or bad driving. Example, the car is pushing bad on corner entry, is it because it’s too stiff in the front or because you are breaking to late and not getting off the brakes enough before turning in? You may end up chasing the setup when it’s really a driving problem.

I believe I learn the most about driving when the car is not handling the best and I have to drive around a problem.

If you go with real stiff spings, a lot of the STR cars are running 700+lbs./in. you will also need much better shocks $$$$ to control them.

I'm sensing that he's already made up his mind before he ever asked the question.

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Originally Posted by OZMDD

I'm sensing that he's already made up his mind before he ever asked the question.

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Shut up dude he has one autocross under his belt that makes him more than qualified!

You go strathound throw fistfuls of cash at that car. ::2Dollar:

Don't listen to any of those stupid seasoned veterans they don't know stuff like you do!

http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg

Thank you, everyone, for the feedback. The car is a toy for me, making modifications to it is part of the fun. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my original post.