Standard Presumptive Value and Auto Sales Tax

When registering the new 1999 Miata I was expecting to pay $281 in tax, 6.25% of $4,500.

When I was in the tax office the lady went through this dry explanation::Blah:: of Standard Presumptive Value (a new law) and how it was going to affect me.

Then she handed me a sheet showing that my Miata's 80% of Standard Presumptive Value was $6,600, meaning my tax liability is now $412.

So the real value of my car is $8,250??? :banghead:

I didnt even bother arguing because the lady was a drone.

I understand the value in the law but show me one person that will pay me $8,250 for my car?!?!?!?! That is plum crazy and out of line valuation.

It does not even consider condition or past incidents.

Here is a site to look up you cars SPV: Texas SPV

Anyway I was reading about how a dealership can do an appraisal for you to take back to them for a refund.

Anyone do this since this crazy law was passed?

I am on the fence if it is worth it... especially if I have to pay for the appraisal.

Sucks, doesn't it? Like you said, it makes no difference what condition the car is in...it can be a beater with a shot engine and the state will still assign an artificially high value to it with what has to be the biggest stealth tax increase ever to hit Texans. Dealers are exempt, however.

Never took the appraisal route though, it's just not worth it. The State knows this, which is why nobody will spend $150 to save $131 in sales tax.

Wasn't the law enacted to put the kibosh on folks who claimed they paid $100 a beater vehicle in order to circumvent the sales tax? Damn shame it's gonna put a lot of people in awkward situations.

Usually they just go by the Kelly Book value for used third party with the mileage amount.

Most of the time you can take your purchase offers from a dealer like Carmax and they'll accept that as an appraisal. (Sometimes you can get the guy to put down a rather low purchase offer)

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Originally Posted by TheChadVIII

Usually they just go by the Kelly Book value for used third party with the mileage amount.

Most of the time you can take your purchase offers from a dealer like Carmax and they'll accept that as an appraisal. (Sometimes you can get the guy to put down a rather low purchase offer)

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I thought the appraisal had to be "official"...

Oh yeah, here it is.

"There are two ways to get a certified appraisal: from a motor vehicle dealer licensed for that category of vehicle or from a licensed insurance adjuster. For example, a purchaser can request a car dealer to appraise a car, a motorcycle dealer to appraise a motorcycle or a trailer dealer to appraise a trailer.
Dealer fees for appraisals are set by law and Comptroller rule. For most vehicles, a dealer can charge from $100 to no more than $300 for a certified appraisal. A dealer’s certified appraisal of a motorcycle can cost from $40 to $300, and a dealer appraisal of a house trailer, travel trailer or a motor home can cost from $100 to $500.
The law allows licensed insurance adjusters to determine the fees they charge.
Purchasers should realize that an appraisal fee may offset any tax savings. "

I would take it to CarMax and have them appraise the vehicle. I did this recently with my wife's CR-V to fight what I thought was an unfair diminished value offer after an accident. The insurance company ended up accepting the valuation that CarMax reached, and CarMax does not charge anything to offer an “appraisal” (what they actually do is give you a written offer to buy your vehicle at a certain price, which I would argue is a pretty good indicator of fair market value and therefore, by extension, an appraisal of value).

Alternatively, do you have a signed bill of sale from the seller? If not, you might contact them for one. You should be able to present that and have the valuation dropped.

Just for kicks, I ran my VIN # and mileage through the calculator on the State’s website, and it came back with $14,225 as a private party value, which is on the pessimistic side of what my car is worth, but not unrealistic (unfortunately :( ). I’m surprised the Miata’s valuation is so far off the mark.

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Originally Posted by cam76034

I thought the appraisal had to be "official"...

Oh yeah, here it is.

"There are two ways to get a certified appraisal: from a motor vehicle dealer licensed for that category of vehicle or from a licensed insurance adjuster. For example, a purchaser can request a car dealer to appraise a car, a motorcycle dealer to appraise a motorcycle or a trailer dealer to appraise a trailer.
Dealer fees for appraisals are set by law and Comptroller rule. For most vehicles, a dealer can charge from $100 to no more than $300 for a certified appraisal. A dealer’s certified appraisal of a motorcycle can cost from $40 to $300, and a dealer appraisal of a house trailer, travel trailer or a motor home can cost from $100 to $500.
The law allows licensed insurance adjusters to determine the fees they charge.
Purchasers should realize that an appraisal fee may offset any tax savings. "

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Boo2 What a load of crap! You should only pay sales tax on what you spent, not what some dumb ass Politician thinks your car is worth. BTW, a CarMax or other dealer quote should be enough for them. Politicians have their head so far up their butts they are totally lost.

Yeah the thing it has to have is the dealer number... which a Carmax report does not.

I will try it for kicks.

KBB hits my car at Private Party Fair $6,630

Looks like I will be getting full coverage now after seeing these values. ;)

Also worth noting fair book for trade is $5,100 .

I know Black Book will be a bit lower.

I am guessing a dealer will probably hit it at $3,750 - $4,500.

Maybe I will take it to Metro VW who LOVES to lowball trades. I bought a car from them 2 years ago and my mom bought one last year there.

I remember them hitting my 2001 S2000 w/ 52K miles for $13,200... this was in 2005. :clap: I of course passed.

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Originally Posted by altiain

Alternatively, do you have a signed bill of sale from the seller? If not, you might contact them for one. You should be able to present that and have the valuation dropped.

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DMV will not accept it.

Interesting... I entered the VIN number of my horse trailer and it couldn't give me a value...

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Originally Posted by TurboDuane

Boo2 What a load of crap! You should only pay sales tax on what you spent, not what some dumb ass Politician thinks your car is worth. BTW, a CarMax or other dealer quote should be enough for them. Politicians have their head so far up their butts they are totally lost.

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I agree, you should only pay tax value on what you spent. Unfortunately, all of the dishonest people who claimed to have bought that used Z06 for $1500 screwed things up for everyone. :roll:

We should be able to get the certficate of origin and not pay taxes at all in my opinion, gas taxes are "supposed" to pay for our roads.

yet another reason why the middle class is being destroyed.

it will never be enough, people should unite and say were not taking this shite anymore.....but that will never happen.

i guess this is how they are going to pay for "Real ID" :rolleyes:

it appears that you can still "Gift" a car and that will make the tax exempt.

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Originally Posted by Billy Blaze

it appears that you can still "Gift" a car and that will make the tax exempt.

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What can I say, he was a really nice guy. He threw me the keys and said Merry Christmas. I was so touched, I gave him a really nice New Years present.... I didn't have time to shop for anything, so I gave him 10 grand.

You guys have hit on one of my pet peeves as I have been buying and selling cars and motorcycles for the past 12 years........I think the state should change tax one time, when the vehicle is sold new. As far as used cars go charge us transfer and registration fees only. How can it be justified that tax is paid every time a car is sold during its life? I bought a damaged car at a city impound lot that was one month old. The original puchaser paid sales tax on $14k, I paid sales tax on $5k and the lady that bought it from me paid tax on $10K, all in the span of 5 months! What a steaming shovel full...........::Rant::

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Originally Posted by Titus

What can I say, he was a really nice guy. He threw me the keys and said Merry Christmas. I was so touched, I gave him a really nice New Years present.... I didn't have time to shop for anything, so I gave him 10 grand.

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:clap:

And with Valentine's Day so close...

I responded to this in another thread but thought I'd chime in here too.

I knew a guy that had a tote the note business on the side. He would buy a junker, get it to the point it was running and lease-to-own it to a poor shmuck. In the State of Texas you can only sell so many vehicles without a dealers license and to get a dealers license you need a minimum sized car lot.

He didn't have a car lot and thus didn't have a dealers license. To get around this when he bought a car, he never transfered the title to himself. When the person paid off the note, he just handed them the title signed by the previous owner. Shady, sure but he was a vehicular slum lord.

Sounds like the 20 day transfer limit tries to keep this from happening.

And in a dashing display of "Cut and Paste", BR retains his throne of reposts by reposting his own stuff. Just kidding BR

But I do agree with VFR750, if it's a private party sale and not from a stealership nor a dealer, I think they should nix the tax. Money grubbing bas7@&65!!!

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Originally Posted by VFR750

You guys have hit on one of my pet peeves as I have been buying and selling cars and motorcycles for the past 12 years........I think the state should change tax one time, when the vehicle is sold new. As far as used cars go charge us transfer and registration fees only. How can it be justified that tax is paid every time a car is sold during its life? I bought a damaged car at a city impound lot that was one month old. The original puchaser paid sales tax on $14k, I paid sales tax on $5k and the lady that bought it from me paid tax on $10K, all in the span of 5 months! What a steaming shovel full...........::Rant::

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I couldn't agree with you more. I picked up my Miata about month after they changed the law, but I was still able to plead ignorance and stupidity and procrastination and only pay tax on what I paid for the car - IIRC, the SPV was about $1500 more than that.

I entered the VIN for my RMB and it didn't pull anything.

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Originally Posted by Dave04

Interesting... I entered the VIN number of my horse trailer and it couldn't give me a value...

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Where do they get their numbers?!? I bought my '01 in Jan 2006 and paid $8,000. If I bought it today, they would charge me for a value of $10,725. And that's two years later!! What kind of value would they have slapped me with two years ago, given that their current numbers are off by almost $3,000? Sales tax should be based on what you spend, not what someone thinks you should have spent. If it wasn't for tracking down a good deal, I wouldn't have been able to get an NB. There are millions of reasons you might be able to buy a car for less than 'market value', so who the hell are they to tell us what we should have paid? What a load of ::turd:: Last time the government tried crap like this, we threw all the tea into the harbor ;)

stay tuned there is more to come ;)

If you buy it from a dealer with a bill of sale, then the state ought to be forced in only charging you tax on what you paid for it. I know they don't. I saw a guy last year get hit with paying tax for twice the amount he paid for it and he had a dealers contract in front of him at the tax office. He asked the lady if she wouldn't mind getting the state to buy it from him at the price they were taxing him on it for.

You guys are missing the point, there should be no tax.

There is a reason why you never see the REAL title to your car (certificate of origin), that is sent to Austin to be shreaded and you get back a "certificate of title"....which means that the state of Texas own a little piece of your vehicle and you are going to pay them some money every year and a large amount upon purchase.

There should be no tax YOU have the RIGHT to travel, untaxed!

that being said.....I have never had a vehicle with the certificate of origin, but I have seen a few and know one man who was able to do this and never had to get plates, inspection, or pay taxes....just a smart ordinary guy, that got pulled over alot to which he would show his COMPLETE ownership of his vehicle and the cops wou leave him alone "if they knew the law" but he got pulled over a lot.

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Originally Posted by Billy Blaze

You guys are missing the point, there should be no tax.

There is a reason why you never see the REAL title to your car (certificate of origin), that is sent to Austin to be shreaded and you get back a "certificate of title"....which means that the state of Texas own a little piece of your vehicle and you are going to pay them some money every year and a large amount upon purchase.

There should be no tax YOU have the RIGHT to travel, untaxed!

that being said.....I have never had a vehicle with the certificate of origin, but I have seen a few and know one man who was able to do this and never had to get plates, inspection, or pay taxes....just a smart ordinary guy, that got pulled over alot to which he would show his COMPLETE ownership of his vehicle and the cops wou leave him alone "if they knew the law" but he got pulled over a lot.

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This sounds like the kind of advice that Wesley Snipes was getting. :rolleyes: I spend some time on a one of the Locost kit forums where all of the cars start with a statement of origin from the kit manufacturer. This statement of origin is required to get the car titled, and I have never heard of anyone trying to avoid the title process. YMMV.

I put my Jeeps VIN into the link just to see what they said. It kicked back and said th VIN was not long enough. Guess there is no SPV on a '72 CJ-5

The Miata came back at $3,900 and the RAM at $17,000.

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Originally Posted by HudsonHawk

I put my Jeeps VIN into the link just to see what they said. It kicked back and said th VIN was not long enough. Guess there is no SPV on a '72 CJ-5

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Vehicles NOT Subject to Standard Presumptive Value Taxation

• New vehicles
• Vehicles purchased from licensed dealers
• Vehicles purchased at public auction
• Vehicles 25 years old or older
• Off-road vehicles, such as dirt bikes or all-terrain vehicles (ATVs)
• Salvage or abandoned vehicles (except rebuilt salvage vehicles)
• Vehicles sold through a mechanic or storage lien
• Vehicles given as gifts
• Even-trade vehicles, when vehicles of equal value are swapped by the owners

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Originally Posted by Dave04

Interesting... I entered the VIN number of my horse trailer and it couldn't give me a value...

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Originally Posted by Flyin94m

I entered the VIN for my RMB and it didn't pull anything.

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IIRC, there is no standard VIN decoder for trailers. I've designed and built a few and registration required whatever VIN I dreamed up that day.

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Originally Posted by Titus

This sounds like the kind of advice that Wesley Snipes was getting. :rolleyes: I spend some time on a one of the Locost kit forums where all of the cars start with a statement of origin from the kit manufacturer. This statement of origin is required to get the car titled, and I have never heard of anyone trying to avoid the title process. YMMV.

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Yeah, there's no way you can get out of the registration/inspection process, even with the Statement of Origin. Back when my dad had a dealer's license, he would buy new cars and drive them on the MSO with dealer plates. He never had to apply for a title (and therefore never had to pay sales tax), but he still had to run plates and get an inspection sticker (albeit this was back in the day of "carry out" stickers :rolleyes:). I'm not sure how the laws have changed, but I don't know if you an run a car on an MSO at all any more - just because the state wants their chunk of the sales tax.