Nissan is selling the Leaf for 33K in the US! Are They Out Of Their Frxxking Mind!?
Printable View
Nissan is selling the Leaf for 33K in the US! Are They Out Of Their Frxxking Mind!?
Yeah but batteries are included. More info on wikipedia here.
Not likely, as they'll sell every single one they can build...Quote:
Originally Posted by gabkwong
So many things make that impractical. 100 mile range for $33k? 16 hours to charge on 110v. OUCH!
$25k + $1100 for the 4 hour charger installed at your home after all government incentives pay out... You really should be more appalled that your tax dollars are funding $9k per buyer than the cost of the car, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to say that in this forum...
I spend about $2000 a year in gas on commuting. My wife spends about $2500 (more expensive gas, more miles). The ROI here is pretty tough... but I think these electric cars are going to sell pretty well...
I mean, who hasn't seen "Who Killed the Electric Car?" and immediately gotten angry at GM?
Really? I don't see it unless it is in the form of Government fleet sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by tailchaser
Your gas bill goes down (since you would still need something gas powered for longer trips) but your electrical bill would go up. How much I don't know. The only thing you are doing is moving the burning of fossil fuels from under the hood of your car to a power plant somewhere.
Without living within this things range of work AND family I simply don't see the point. The land layout of the US isn't like Europe or other countries with higher population densities. It's one of the reasons a nation wide mass transit system really isn't feasible IMO.
Also don't forget the folks buying these get $9k in tax breaks BEFORE they don't pay road taxes by buying gasoline...
In my opinion, the Volt is still the better choice. I can travel to and from work on batteries without needing the on-board generator, yet I can still drive it accross the country as I would any other car, if I so wanted.
I think the electric car is a SCAM! The carbon footprint going into making the battery, car and producing the electrcity is bigger than my dino juice burning Miata! Not to mention the environmental pollution in mining the toxic metals in make and disposing the batteries. Yes, I do NOT want my $9K going to buying the LEAF for some tree hugger!
Don't worry, the oil companies will kill off this EV too.
Has anyone seen my conspiracy handbook?
I think people tend to ignore or are ignorant to the fact that those batteries need to be replaced after a certain time. IIRC the Priuses and such that first sold should be coming up on needing battery replacements soon. All the money they saved on gas over the years will now be spent on replacement batteries. And the old ones have to go somewhere.
It's easier to fix emissions on 100 power plants than it is for 400,000 cars...
You are allowed and should be appalled that our tax dollars are ONCE again funding the automotive industry!!!!!!!!!! 42% of people do not pay federal taxes as it is.....
This actually became a big question a couple years ago when the first gen hybrids were due for batteries. At that time, the costs were about $2200 for a new set in a gen 1 prius. Yes there are issues with what to do with the batteries and there is a cost there.... but take any eight year old car with 100,000+ miles on it and you're likely going to have some maintenance cost (ever heard of a chrysler automatic transmission loving life at 100k miles?).Quote:
I think people tend to ignore or are ignorant to the fact that those batteries need to be replaced after a certain time. IIRC the Priuses and such that first sold should be coming up on needing battery replacements soon. All the money they saved on gas over the years will now be spent on replacement batteries. And the old ones have to go somewhere.
With a purely electric car, you'll have xx number of years without gas, air filters, oil changes, potentially few brake jobs, etc. etc. etc.. Paying $2000 in 8 years for 8 years of cheap running is pretty appealing IMO. You guys drive drop tops. Wouldn't your commute be more enjoyable if when you're stuck on the tollway it was way quieter and those damn diesel pickups (with one guy in it!) weren't blowing their smoke directly in your face?
Talking to Don Herring Jr., the BestBuy/Geek Squad will be getting the initial shipment of all Mievs here in the US. He won't see any for like 6 months after they get one. If you have a fleet of vehicles, putting a ton of miles on them a year, the cost savings in gas and other consumables could work quite well. I know that the cabs and city fleets that converted to the Prius/hybrids (at least initially) were singing the praises of the hybrid/higher fuel economy cars.
No argument there... I think the Leaf is a brilliant vehicle... and I think they would sell 85,000 units withOUT government subsidies... There are far more folks out there with more $$$ than logic that would buy them up... i also think that subsidies are preventing the manufacturers from figuring out the economics to build cars that stand on their own... Hats off to Nissan for taking this bold step anyway... It's going to take some horrific failures before alternate fuel vehicles become useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
Don't get me wrong I'm not against advancement in this field of work. I would love to see alternative energy vehciles that work well for people outside of the large metro areas. It's going to be hard though to find an energy source that we're able to store and use like gasoline. I can put gas into my tank and it takes me almost 300 miles per tank compared to 100 miles on one charge for this car.Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
We have guys that work here that live in the DFW area that would be hard pressed to make their round trip to work and back on a single charge with this vehicle. IMO the hybrid powertrain is the closest we've came so far to cutting back on oil useage but it's still not perfect by any means. And again IMO all this govt. "help" is doing nothing more than hindering these endevors even more.
You'll never be able to get people that live in the sticks off of fossil fuel in the near future. There's just too much distance.
I get 165-180 miles in the Evo on a tank of E85 (12 gallons). I fill up every 4-5 days of normal commute (32-36 miles round trip). A car like this would be perfect for me... if I could justify the initial outlay. Obviously a $4k miata getting 25mpg would be more cost effective lol.
I'm one of those guys that lives in the sticks and commutes everyday. About 100 miles round trip a day. 500 miles a week. In any of my vehicles I have to fill up every 2 or so days depending on how hard I flog them on the way home. :punchout:
so don't buy one? :scratch:
I don't plan on it. However I would like to see a company do well making viable alternative energy vehicles. And I have a feeling this will do as well as most other options out there.......not very well. But that's just what I think the market could prove me wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
you mean like hundreds of thousands of priuses being sold a year?
or the shortages of VW TDi Jettas that we've been experiencing since they came out?
Of course BMW is singing the woes of trying to sell a diesel in the US market with their X5d and 335d, but their products are stupid expensive and their dealers are douchebags, so I don't bemoan them anything.
If you're talking about fuel cells, that's just stupid technology...
Why on earth are you running E85 in that thing? By my math, you're getting 15mpg - best case.:punchout:Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
***
As for the Leaf... a pure electric might be fine for errands/light commuting in a confined urban area, but in most parts of this country it will be a niche car - a toy, really. Unless you had easy access to long-distance public transportation (trains, planes, etc), you'd still have to have a real car for trips of any substance. And by "real car" I mean one with access to a widespread, convenient, and quick refueling (recharging) infrastructure. In my mind, the Volt is better suited to primary car duty. If I had to speculate, the future (at least in this country) lies in some sort of hybrid car - of the fuel-cell variety, not the stopgap gas or diesel hybrids.
I'd rather see tax subsidies for more ambitious technology than hybrids and pure electrics, but at least this is a way to get batteries and motors some real world development.
He's running E85 because everyone needs 450 whp for the daily commute. :wink:
As for me, I'm all for electric cars. The more the merrier. Did I mention that I design mining equipment for a living? The more electric vehicles, the more machines we sell to coal and lithium mines. Bring it! :mrgreen:
What's wrong with fuel cells?Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
What Iain said ;) You don't ask the same thing of the people driving a suburban by themselves to work do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyrix
And I think that most suburban dwelling people will still have two vehicles, one that's an around town, EV (or similar) and one "long range" vehicle for those trips out of town and the like. Honestly for the really long trips (Florida and Colorado) I've taken to renting a car. It's more expensive, but I don't put the miles and wear and tear on one of my cars and when I get home I don't care about how funky it is, I just drop it back off :D
Yep... E-85 is much higher octane than pump gas, allowing turbo guys to run much more boost without knock. There are a few turbo Miatas running E85 at around 500hp (including a former dfwmiata member).
You mean other than "they'll be a viable technology soon" for 20 years? The hundreds of thousands of existing fuel stations that would need to be converted to providing the fuel for the cells, etc, etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyrix
I liked the Volt when it was first pitched. I'd still buy one, but they keep lowering the ev only range and raising the price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
boost and timing :D
Alright TC !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tailchaser
Ah... I didn't know you had a 450-horse commuter. :burnrubr:Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
I don't question those folks to their face, but I do sometimes the wisdom of commuting in a 3-ton behemoth. We've got a guy here at work who commutes in a friggin' Excursion, and he's got a nasty habit of backing into parked cars because he can't see out of the damn thing.
And it's been argued that the companies who make them either take a loss or barely break even. They can keep doing that due to govt. incentives and the amount of other cars they sell.Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
I hope you aren't taking what I say personally I support research into alternative fuels however on that same token I want my tax money to be invested wisely not pissed into the wind............though they do that on other things besides this subject lol.
I still want a CNG hybrid. No need to go to the local Valero or Shell station AND go more than 100 miles.
Just curious... has anyone seen a range estimate on the Leaf if you, say, turn on the AC? That would be very important for me here in Texas...
Good quesiton :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave04
Ya, there are a lot bigger fish to fry (*cough* wars *cough*) than this.... I'm all for research, but I think you have to turn a practical eye to it. I want a Mr. Fusion!Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider
We were joking about this. 100 miles without headlights, radio, ac, windows up, no stopping, etc. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave04
I want a complementry Flux Capacitor when I pick mine up lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
Attachment 3882