Hawk HPS Brake Pads Suck!

I suppose I shouldn't be saying they suck considering my employer but I think Gary would agree with me. ;)

I've been running Hawk DTC-30 on the street since Hallett last year which is overkill but too lazy to change them out. Well I decided to switch to an old set of HPS I had laying around for the drive up to Hallett and what a frustrating difference. The HPS have no bite, I can't even come close to locking them up.

The DTC-30 is like an HP+ on steroids. Easy on the rotors and tremendous initial bite. They are a bit more expensive than the HP+ so they are recommended for track use only even though they are fine for the street. The DTC series pads really shine on the track. An even better pad is the DTC-60. It lasts longer than the DTC-30 and is just as easy on the rotors. Rumor has it the Lemons Team Miagra uses the DTC-60. :D

One note of caution. The dust from the DTC pads is very corrosive to wheels. You need to keep them clean and wash your wheels after your track day.

I plan on going with Hawk Performance Ceramic pads after Hallett for the street. They are a good balance between the HP+ and the HPS. Little to no dusting, quiet but have a good initial bite. Not sure how good they are for a HPDE though.

Not towing the company line very well.

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We've tried a lot of different brake pads and come to the conclusion that Hawk Performance brake pads just plain work the best. We carry the the HP Street and Plus compounds.

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We recommend the HPS (Street) as a high performance street pad. These pads are also suitable for light track days and autocross events.

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I bought mine based on the reccomendations of the Track Dog web site.

I like my HPS pads. I might try HP+ next time for a bit more but we'll see.

Most of Hwak's pads (HPS, HP+, Blue, Black) are fifteen year old carryover technology. There are much better alternatives on the market.

Never used the DTC Series, but why suffer with a corrosive pad? Carbotech's XP series offers excellent initial bite, much larger thermal ranges than the Hawk line, and the dust is non-corrosive. I've been using XP8s and XP10s for several year now, and I doubt I'll ever buy Hawk products again.

Have you seen the corrosiveness? I'VE been running 60's for over a year, wash ky wheels once per year, and have not seen a problem. Blues were bad, but I think the new generation of Hawks doesn't tear up wheels so bad.

If you can't lock-up the brakes, you have a problem. I have $25 Raybestos pads in my daily and they take some pressure, but they lock.

My first brake upgrade was to HPS pads, and they were a huge leap over the wooden blocks that came on my car. I even went to Hallett with them one year, and they weren't too bad - but they didn't have much room for error. If I went into Turn 2 too hot, they would cook pretty quick. Then I switched to HP+ and won't ever go back down to the HPS. The HP+ is a great street/light-track pad, and they felt pretty damn good at Hallett. While they dust up pretty good, I've never had a problem with corrosion at all. I use Eagle One A2Z wheel/tire cleaner and it cleans the nastiest wheels with little/no effort.

I'm upgrading again to DTC pads this year, and I'm looking forward to 'em...

The Eagle-1 "Keep Clean" wheels coating stuff works really, really, really well too.

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Originally Posted by jrj512

Not towing the company line very well.
I bought mine based on the reccomendations of the Track Dog web site.

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Just my personal opinion. If anyone asks me, the new Performance Ceramic is better then the HPS. Working on a new website so the old one is getting a bit neglected.

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Originally Posted by mr brg

Have you seen the corrosiveness?

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Yeah I have. So has Wags and Gary. The dust isn't a problem unless the wheels get wet and allowed to dry. It just sticks. I was able to clean my 6ULs but had to use some 600 grit to get the wheels clean. The deal is, after your track day, clean your wheels and don't let that dust sit on there for weeks on end.

You and I have different experiences then. I've had 60's on my car for almost two years now and both sets of my 6UL's are fine. I literally clean the track wheels once per year and the street wheels ~6-times per year (the bronze wheels always look black). Blues were another story, but I really think these DTC pads are different.

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Originally Posted by altiain

Never used the DTC Series, but why suffer with a corrosive pad? Carbotech's XP series offers excellent initial bite, much larger thermal ranges than the Hawk line, and the dust is non-corrosive. I've been using XP8s and XP10s for several year now, and I doubt I'll ever buy Hawk products again.

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I tried to run two sets of Carbotechs. The backing plates are soft, the pad tapers, I didn't care for the pedal feel, when you overheat the pad at the fire-brand, they disintegrate, They're 3x the cost of my DTC's on the front, and I don't really care for their customer service policies. I had a pad fall off the plate in the rear and Carbotech did not replace the set. I've never done this to a set of Hawk pads.

Hmm... Never had any issue with pad taper on the RX-8, and I ran four or five sets of Carbotechs through the brakes on that car. Also never had any of the other issues you mentioned. Different strokes I guess. Which compound were you using?

As for price... I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for, and brakes are definitely not the place on the car to save a few pennies.

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Originally Posted by altiain

As for price... I'm a firm believer that you get what you pay for, and brakes are definitely not the place on the car to save a few pennies.

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xp12 all the way around:
http://i34.tinypic.com/291lyqh.jpg
The rotors were nice and blue when I started on the pads both times, Carbotech wouldn't not warranty them because they claim I didn't bed them properly. They told me this on the second set where the pad fell off the plate, which does not sound like a burnishing issue to me.

There are a lot of teams in Rolex and Grand-Am who run Hawks, or at least use their stickers, so it's not how much you pay that matters. Hawk, PFC, CL, and Pagid all charge $60-75 for "Outlaw" sized pads, CT wants $170 which is dumb.

Am I the only one that thinks it's a bit...odd...unfair?...to compare a pure street pad to a streetable track pad?

I know what you're trying to say, but that's like riding around on r-comps on the street, then switching to a true street tire. Of course they will "suck."

More "getting what you pay for" from awesome XP-12's from another guy:
http://i52.tinypic.com/289vev6.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/3g1sj.jpg

Yes Rob it is unfair. The Hawk Streets are great substitutes for factory OEM pads. They can't compare to a Plus or DTC but Black Roadster clearly forgot that because it had been so long since he used a Street.

I've never used the DTCs - that was my next round of pads to try (especially now that I finally have the 1.8l rear caliper brackets to put on), so it's good to see some positive reviews locally. I liked my HP+ on the streets in NJ/NY, where I was able to drive rather aggressively all the time.

I currently have HP+ in the rear and some Brembo nonsense in the front. Talk about a pad that sucks - whatever the Brembo pads I bought on a whim are complete garbage (supposed to be comparable to the HP+). I thought EBC Greens were terrible, but these easily top them on the suckage front.

This thead is pointless, Real men run DTC-60.

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Originally Posted by mr brg

xp12 all the way around:
http://i34.tinypic.com/291lyqh.jpg
The rotors were nice and blue when I started on the pads both times, Carbotech wouldn't not warranty them because they claim I didn't bed them properly. They told me this on the second set where the pad fell off the plate, which does not sound like a burnishing issue to me.

There are a lot of teams in Rolex and Grand-Am who run Hawks, or at least use their stickers, so it's not how much you pay that matters. Hawk, PFC, CL, and Pagid all charge $60-75 for "Outlaw" sized pads, CT wants $170 which is dumb.

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Trey, that's some scary taper. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen that much radial taper in a brake pad.

With a single piston floating caliper (like all Miatas come with), some longitudinal taper is almost unavoidable. Here’s a good description of why:

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The leading edge of a brake pad is the one that may be thought of as first touching the rotor as it turns. If your calipers are mounted behind the wheel axis, the bottom pad edges will lead. The friction of the pad against the turning rotor causes the pad itself to try to rotate about an imaginary axis behind it, with the effect that the leading edge of the pad presses harder against the rotor, doing more work and getting hotter. This uneven heating leads to longitudinal wear: uneven pad depth from leading to trailing edges.

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Radial taper is typically indicative one of three things – the piston is cocked in the bore, the caliper mounting bracket is flexing under brake application, or a lack of cooling in the brakes. Again, here’s another good description:

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Radial taper wear can be seen as a difference in pad depth along the radius of the rotor. A brake caliper is mounted to its strut on one edge. The forces created by applying the brake pedal cause yet another twisting moment, this time of the caliper assembly around an axis through its mounting points. There are other factors as well: a square-ish pad against a round rotor means that the radially inner part of the rotor will spend proportionally more time under the pad, and less in cooling air. Heat differences also exist because the inner edge of the rotor interfaces with the hub rather than air, limiting conduction.

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Are your pads worn significantly more on the inside (closer to the hub) than the outside? In that case, it may be time to rethink – or add – some brake ducting.

In short – what you got ain’t normal. And I don’t think it’s the fault of the pad compound.

As for Hawk stickers in Grand-Am/Rolex - that's for contingency. I run Hawk stickers on my autocross cars at ProSolos too, but I don't use Hawk brakes. :wink:

Performance Friction pads rock. 01 for all out race and 06 for lighter duty.
I tried them all and this pad holds up very well.

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Originally Posted by altiain

Trey, that's some scary taper. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever seen that much radial taper in a brake pad.

With a single piston floating caliper (like all Miatas come with), some longitudinal taper is almost unavoidable. Here’s a good description of why:

Radial taper is typically indicative one of three things – the piston is cocked in the bore, the caliper mounting bracket is flexing under brake application, or a lack of cooling in the brakes. Again, here’s another good description:

Are your pads worn significantly more on the inside (closer to the hub) than the outside? In that case, it may be time to rethink – or add – some brake ducting.

In short – what you got ain’t normal. And I don’t think it’s the fault of the pad compound.

As for Hawk stickers in Grand-Am/Rolex - that's for contingency. I run Hawk stickers on my autocross cars at ProSolos too, but I don't use Hawk brakes. :wink:

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I always saw taper to the outter edge of both pads, never the inside. I rebuilt the calipers, checked the sliders, and even tried standard 1.8 brakes, the problem persisted until I killed a set of pads again at MSR-H and switched to PFC-01 in desperation...and like Ken says, that's a great pad. Hawk Blue did not sow taper either, it was the pads, plain and simple. PFC-97's were also great. I have a set of those I still need to burn up in the new brakes.

I don't have any brake problems since installing these little guys:
http://trackspeedengineering.com/pho...02_pmfky_0.jpg
With sport rears.

That's sexy :)

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Originally Posted by black roadster

Yeah I have. So has Wags and Gary. The dust isn't a problem unless the wheels get wet and allowed to dry. It just sticks. I was able to clean my 6ULs but had to use some 600 grit to get the wheels clean. The deal is, after your track day, clean your wheels and don't let that dust sit on there for weeks on end.

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The only time i had a corrosion problem was when i installed hawk blacks and ran them a session. Then they got wet and they rusted the finish on my black 6ul's.

With DTC 60's, I haven't had a corrosion problem. Been running them over a year on bronze 6ul's. Wheels still look fine.

+1,000,000

My '99 came with a NIB set of HPS. I put them on the car and swapped them out in about a week for HP+ as the HPS were awful. I love HP+ on the street and they've served me well at the track. My only complaint is the dust. I don't care all that much, but I'm sure it would be a deal killer for some. I just wish I had gotten black wheels instead of silver...