1990 NA No Start / I've checked just about everything / Please help

This is my friends car, i sold him this car about 2 years ago.

He said the car started up fine and he was driving a few miles away to go to work and the car just died.

I went to go help him check the car out tonight, i looked at the obvious stuff, the battery is getting 12.5 volts from my voltmeter, i pulled the gas line and as the car is cranking over the gas is spitting out, i pulled one of the spark-plug wires as he turned the car over and was getting spark.

I tired unplugging the MAF sensor as he was cranking the car, it didn't seem to make a difference, i checked all connections unplugged TPS sensor and cranked the car didn't seem to make a difference either

I checked the timing belt and its not broken or anything, its turning with the engine as its being cranked.

The car started a few times and then just died again, you could hold the gas to keep the revs up and it sounds smooth (not misfiring) then it goes down to low rpms and just dies out again

I tried raising the idle screw up, didn't change anything im pretty much stumped out at this point,

Do you guys have any ideas, its a 1990 NA, 5 speed

Bad CAS maybe? Sounds like what my car was doing......

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Originally Posted by sxk122

Bad CAS maybe? Sounds like what my car was doing......

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How would you check if that was bad, unplug it ? or have to replace it and try to restart the car ?

I forgot to add the car just hit 150,000 miles

From the few things that have happpened to my car... has he washed the engine lately? Water in the sparkplug wells?

Since you've checked almost everything, just for kicks might check if the main belt pulley is loose/wobbly. My car did weird things when the crank bolt backed out and threw the timing.

From the few things that have happpened to my car... has he washed the engine lately? Water in the sparkplug wells?

Just for kicks might check if the main belt pulley is loose/wobbly. My car did weird things when the crank bolt backed out and threw the timing.

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Originally Posted by Jiggerachi

From the few things that have happpened to my car... has he washed the engine lately? Water in the sparkplug wells?

Just for kicks might check if the main belt pulley is loose/wobbly. My car did weird things when the crank bolt backed out and threw the timing.

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Thats a good idea, i thought i heard something loose,

im going to re-check the car now, thanks i will update

I hade a 96 camaro that did the similar thing and come to find out i had a blown head gasket... but the car would run till it got to temp then die and not run at all

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Originally Posted by sxk122

Bad CAS maybe? Sounds like what my car was doing......

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Yeah im leading toward this as well,

Where did you get yours, The orileys one is like $240

Does any one have a Used CAS for 1.6 ? i already tried track-dog that dont have any in stock.

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Originally Posted by NissanFairladyZ32

Does any one have a Used CAS for 1.6 ? i already tried track-dog that dont have any in stock.

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Check Mazda-Nissan Heaven in Mansfield. If not them, Rogue might have one for sale.

I will support that the problem could likely be the CAS. That is an expensive part to throw at a problem without 100% certainty.

If you can find someone who has a spare lying around and is willing to loan it to you, give it a try before you buy. CAS is probably not a returnable item. I got mine from a friend who had an extra, TCB style.

I got mine through Track Dog, but used. It's an expensive part :(

Got a used CAS from Rob® and put it on tonight,

Car still not running,e h we got it to turn over a few times and we had to keep the rpms up to keep it from dying, and when doing so the exhaust manifold got red scorching hot within 45 seconds so we shut it down.

What could be causing this, clogged cat ?

possibly a clogged cat, take it off and see if it starts up and drives. also maybe the timing jumped and is running very retarded.

Did you check the timing on the CAS after you replaced it? If it is oriented differently than the one you took out, you're gonna have trouble.

Ya sure the timing belt didn't spit some teeth off??

Like this :
http://www.b17gsr.ca/blog/wp-content...iming_belt.jpg

I agree, check the timing. I would think with a clogged cat you wouldn't have a good runing car one day and dead the next.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Ya sure the timing belt didn't spit some teeth off??

Like this :
http://www.b17gsr.ca/blog/wp-content...iming_belt.jpg

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Timing belt has not slipped, or not a torn belt like that, the belt has all the ribs, ive rotated it from the crankshaft.

Anything i should try before taking the catalytic converter off ?

Ignitor

A clogged cat usually shows up slowly with decreased performance until it won't even start. Make sure CAS is aligned correctly. Ignitor is a good suggestion too. I believe it is a 1.6l unique part.

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Originally Posted by black roadster

A clogged cat usually shows up slowly with decreased performance until it won't even start. Make sure CAS is aligned correctly. Ignitor is a good suggestion too. I believe it is a 1.6l unique part.

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Originally Posted by boisking

Did you check the timing on the CAS after you replaced it? If it is oriented differently than the one you took out, you're gonna have trouble.

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Originally Posted by Strider

I agree, check the timing. I would think with a clogged cat you wouldn't have a good runing car one day and dead the next.

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Originally Posted by NissanFairladyZ32

Anything i should try before taking the catalytic converter off ?

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Have you checked your CAS timing yet?

Your symptom: "...have to keep the RPMs up so it won't stall" is indicative of too-advanced ignition timing.

A clogged cat will have best performance at idle, with decreasing performance as revs (thus airflow) increase. Which is dissimilar to what you are describing.

If the timing is indeed set correctly, take Rogue's advice. He is good at being right.

If it starts then not the Ignitor.

Are the plugs wet with fuel?
pull them and spray with carb cleaner, dry, reinstall.
Fuel foul can cause a second issue.

Pull the fuel pump and see if the fuel is cloudy.

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Originally Posted by Rogue

If it starts then not the Ignitor.

Are the plugs wet with fuel?
pull them and spray with carb cleaner, dry, reinstall.
Fuel foul can cause a second issue.

Pull the fuel pump and see if the fuel is cloudy.

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I swapped the CAS, with a used one and its doing the same thing

Ive rotated the cas to different positions it seems best near the middle, it doesn't start every time but if you crank it long enough it will turn on the die out. the car doesent have the lower timing cover on it so i cant put in in exact time.

I haven't pulled the plugs yet, i pulled every wire while the car is cranking and i do see a spark, i pulled the fuel line and fuel spits when the car is cranking.

Tomorrow im going to put a new coil on it and see if that does anything. it just seemed weird that when we had it running the manifold got cherry red hot in less then a minute.

The cat does make noise when the car revs up, but shouldn't affect it starting and at idle i wouldn't think.

Anyone mind stopping by in Allen @ Bethany & Greenville to see what the car is doing ?

Put a brand new ignition coil in today, nothing changed, it will still start sometimes and just die out can a bad ecu cause this ? It died in the middle of him driving it, does this indicate anything? At this point in leaning toward a bad ecu is this possible ?

If the exhaust manifold is getting really hot it might be lean. Clogged fuel filter, injectors, or fuel pump going bad? I don't know how the ECU interprets everything but a bad air flow sensor could be showing low air flow so it's cutting fuel? I think if an oxygen sensor is malfunctioning it'll generally throw a code. Just some thoughts...

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Originally Posted by jakepkoe

If the exhaust manifold is getting really hot it might be lean. Clogged fuel filter, injectors, or fuel pump going bad? I don't know how the ECU interprets everything but a bad air flow sensor could be showing low air flow so it's cutting fuel? I think if an oxygen sensor is malfunctioning it'll generally throw a code. Just some thoughts...

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its pumping fuel, ive pulled the fuel line and cranked it, it was spitting fuel out,

would a bad MAF have anything to do with the car starting ?

The red hot manifold is what is making me thing lean. Can't think of much else that'd cause that. Your pump and filter may be fine, which would still show fuel flow if you pulled a line to check but if the injectors aren't firing sufficiently you may not be getting enough fuel into the cylinders. A clogged filter might let fuel through, but not enough flow or pressure to properly run the car. Same might be said of a fuel pump. I may be way off base, and probably I am, just throwing some ideas out there. As a test, you could pull the intake tube off of the throttle body and spray some throttle body cleaner as you're trying to start it - if it runs better, it's probably a fuel issue.

Also, you might check for a big vacuum leak. It'll run its worst at idle and get progressively better as the throttle is opened.

Out of curiosity, have you checked to see if it is throwing any codes? OBDI often will not show a CEL even though it threw codes. Only way to know is to check it.

Instructions here.

Just another random thought. Is the car smoking any and have you checked to see if oil is in the coolant or not? Could just be blown. Check the compression.

glowing red manifold seems to me to be collapsed cat. are you getting any exhaust out the tailpipe?

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

glowing red manifold seems to me to be collapsed cat. are you getting any exhaust out the tailpipe?

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Am getting exhaust out the back,

Perhaps the fuel pressure is just low, isn't is suppose to supply fuel when the key is in the on position ?

i only got fuel to come out of the line when it was cranking over, im not sure if there is enough fuel pressure cause when i pulled the line off it just drizzled out it wasn't like a burst of fuel like any other car that ive taken the fuel line off of

bought a fuel pump from orileys and tried to install it in my friends 90 NA

i couldn't get it to fit snug is there a trick to it ? all they gave me was a o-ring and a hose and some clamps ...

anyone got a used fuel assembly for sale ?

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Originally Posted by NissanFairladyZ32

bought a fuel pump from orileys and tried to install it in my friends 90 NA

i couldn't get it to fit snug is there a trick to it ? all they gave me was a o-ring and a hose and some clamps ...

anyone got a used fuel assembly for sale ?

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We sell a kit for fuel pumps. Includes The 1.6 pump is different than the 1.8 pump. Make sure you have the correct one.

http://www.trackdogracing.com/websit...l_pump_kit.jpg

Fuel pump kit for fuel pump upgrades includes rubber cover to reduce sound level, extend hose with new clamps, rubber dampener and new strainer.

It was the fuel pump i guess i wasn't getting enough flow as the old one tuned on, i guess not enough

Stopped by TDR and picked one up after seeing Gary break the first one lol

Anyways the car runs now just the revs hold out too long and take awhile to come back down

is this timing related ?

Quickest and easiest to check: Check the damper on the throttle body (the diaphragm looking thing). And the throttle body plate/butterfly itself - it could be crapped up enough to make it stick.

Are you still using the CAS I gave you (just for curiosity's sake)?

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Originally Posted by NissanFairladyZ32

Anyways the car runs now just the revs hold out too long and take awhile to come back down

is this timing related ?

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It's a 94, but my car has done this twice, once when I dicked with the idle like an idiot without putting the ECU in diagnostic mode, and 2nd when my crank bolt let go and timing belt jumped a tooth. Not saying either of these is your case, but in my limited experience the ECU did this when it sensed something had changed that it didn't know about.

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Originally Posted by Jiggerachi

It's a 94, but my car has done this twice, once when I dicked with the idle like an idiot without putting the ECU in diagnostic mode, and 2nd when my crank bolt let go and timing belt jumped a tooth. Not saying either of these is your case, but in my limited experience the ECU did this when it sensed something had changed that it didn't know about.

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Interesting, i guess ill look more into it.

Yeah, I was assuming you jumped the pins to adjust idle...that could very well be it.

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Originally Posted by Rob®

Yeah, I was assuming you jumped the pins to adjust idle...that could very well be it.

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No im a dumb-ass , ill try that when i see his car again

i still dont see what it would help the car idles fine, it just takes awhile to get the RPMS down.

Yep that's what my car did. Idled fine but the rps wouldn't drop. Drove it to work a couple days the needle started bouncing/lunging at stoplights.