Insurance Loss of Use Claim

Say someone hits your weekend/pleasure car and it's their fault 100%. The car goes into the shop for repair for a given amount of time. How would you typically calculate the loss of use? Since it's a pleasure car and you don't need a loaner could you ask for money equal to what it would have cost to rent the same/similar car for a given timeframe?

I.E. say it was in the shop for 10 days and it's $300 a day to rent it, could you ask for $3,000? Just curious if there's an industry standard for this kind of thing.

I'd be more worried about diminished value since it now how a dinged up carfax showing it was in an accident.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/tmb...ullsize_21.jpg

Also getting diminished value as well, have a plan for that one. Need advise on loss of use.

So what happened?

BTDT, they will offer you the amount of what they would have paid for a rental, ie: Enterprise. $25 a day or somewhere around that is what they paid me, although I never said it was a weekend/pleasure vehicle.

I wouldn't expect $300 a day.....they can put you in transportation a lot cheaper than that. If you have already turned down a rental from them because you have other vehicles to drive don't expect any loss of use payment.

They key word is "comparable" transportation. If I understand correctly they have to put you in a car comparable to what you were driving. If someone hit your 2012 Mercedes S65 AMG I don't think you have to accept a Ford Fiesta as a substitute.

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Originally Posted by cam76034

BTDT, they will offer you the amount of what they would have paid for a rental, ie: Enterprise. $25 a day or somewhere around that is what they paid me, although I never said it was a weekend/pleasure vehicle.

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Guessing it was a Miata?

I think you're going to want legal representation on this if you plan to go for anything close to your $300/day target. There is a reasonable argument that a new Ford Taurus is an acceptable substitute for a C63, since it can perform all of the same tasks as the Merc. Just because it can do 160 mph doesn't mean they have to give another car that fast. Prestige/performance/value arent' likely to be considerations in a legal sense.

You might try to appeal to them with a compromise: $50/day rental cost for the 21 days (guess) the vehicle was out of your posession, ignoring the "weekend" tag. That is much better for them than the 10 days @$300/day for an Elise rental, but still gets you $1K for your "inconveniece" that isn't really an inconvenience for you anyway.

If you really want every last $$, better hire an insurance attorney, but you'll spend a lot of the benefit doing so.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but since you're aleady having the vehicle repaired at your choice of shop and presumably getting a diminished value settlement as well, it seems a little predatory to be asking for "loss of use" (especially at $300/day) on a car you hardly drive.

Joe photographed at the office earlier today:

http://images.inmagine.com/img/image.../is098r9a7.jpg

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Originally Posted by altiain

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but since you're aleady having the vehicle repaired at your choice of shop and presumably getting a diminished value settlement as well, it seems a little predatory to be asking for "loss of use" (especially at $300/day) on a car you hardly drive.

Joe photographed at the office earlier today:

http://images.inmagine.com/img/image.../is098r9a7.jpg

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My vehicle would not have needed repairs had the insured not run into me. Diminished value is a intrinsic loss of value and a hit I will take later on selling the car. If they didn't want me to ask for $ they shouldn't have run into me. I still had to pay car payments, insurance etc while it was down and I couldn't drive it. I missed driving it in several events and I pay good money to be able to drive it when I want. They certainly aren't doing me any favors by righting a situation they created and are liable to fix.

Perhaps I should ask this on 6speedonline to a crowd with some higher end cars. I guess if they had to pay a $3,000 loss of use or diminished value on a 10 year old Miata it would be totalled even before the repairs started. ;)

P.S. you sure did seem eager to go after the insurance company for extra $ when some clown smashed your CRV even though it was fixed a few years ago. I guess you weren't so old fashioned when it was your property and $ involved. ::PotKettl

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

P.S. you sure did seem eager to go after the insurance company for extra $ when some clown smashed your CRV even though it was fixed a few years ago. I guess you weren't so old fashioned when it was your property and $ involved. ::PotKettl

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Umm... apples to oranges, my short-fused friend.

Just so that we're both on the same page - when my CR-V was hit, I did indeed pursue a diminished value claim. If you'll look back at what I typed, I'm not faulting you for that. You're both legally and morally entitled to be compensated for that intrinsic loss of value, since it will be lost value if/when you sell the car.

What I'm questioning is your desire to go after a "loss of use" payment for a vehicle you hardly use, that spends 95% of it's life cocooned in your garage propping up your golf clubs. The fact that you think $300/day is a reasonable figure seems laughable, greedy, and slightly morally bankrupt to me, but to each his own.

More power to you, Jo-Jo. Take 'em for every cent you can squeeze out of them for the tragedy that you've suffered.

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Originally Posted by altiain

Umm... apples to oranges, my short-fused friend.

Just so that we're both on the same page - when my CR-V was hit, I did indeed pursue a diminished value claim. If you'll look back at what I typed, I'm not faulting you for that. You're both legally and morally entitled to be compensated for that intrinsic loss of value, since it will be lost value if/when you sell the car.

What I'm questioning is your desire to go after a "loss of use" payment for a vehicle you hardly use, that spends 95% of it's life cocooned in your garage propping up your golf clubs. The fact that you think $300/day is a reasonable figure seems laughable, greedy, and slightly morally bankrupt to me, but to each his own.

More power to you, Jo-Jo. Take 'em for every cent you can squeeze out of them for the tragedy that you've suffered.

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My golf clubs live in the trunk of my BMW :) Sorry I can have a fun sports car that I don't HAVE to drive everywhere all the time. Too bad my bank and insurance company don't let me just pay on it when I feel like using it. I should definitely be penalized and just eat the intrinsic cost of payments/insurance/nearly 2 months of wasted inspection/registration when I couldn't drive it. You're 100% right. Let me adjust my "moral compass" and write the bank and insurance company an IOU for that time period, I'm sure they'll understand.

BTW I wasn't even asking for $300.00 a day just using round numbers as an example of the rental X days model.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

My golf clubs live in the trunk of my BMW :) Sorry I can have a fun sports car that I don't HAVE to drive everywhere all the time. Too bad my bank and insurance company don't let me just pay on it when I feel like using it.

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You choose to make multiple car payments every month. Good for you. I choose to drive one car I paid cash for. We all make choices.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I should definitely be penalized and just eat the intrinsic cost of payments/insurance/nearly 2 months of wasted inspection/registration when I couldn't drive it. You're 100% right. Let me adjust my "moral compass" and write the bank and insurance company an IOU for that time period, I'm sure they'll understand.

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You mean like the IOU you signed with the bank when they let you drive their car?

If you’re still making payments on the car, it isn’t yours. It’s the bank’s. The bank is just being kind enough to let you use it until you finish paying for it. The interest you pay every month is the fee you pay for that privilege.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

BTW I wasn't even asking for $300.00 a day just using round numbers as an example of the rental X days model.

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Of course. Everyone has to have a starting point when entering a negotiation.

I think this comes down to the definition of "reasonable" when considering compensation and reimbursement. As I already mentioned, if you really want to pursue the level of loss-of-use compensation you are deeming reasonable, be prepared to pay for representation when the insurance company refuses.

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Originally Posted by altiain

You choose to make multiple car payments every month. Good for you. I choose to drive one car I paid cash for. We all make choices.



You mean like the IOU you signed with the bank when they let you drive their car?

If you’re still making payments on the car, it isn’t yours. It’s the bank’s. The bank is just being kind enough to let you use it until you finish paying for it. The interest you pay every month is the fee you pay for that privilege.



Of course. Everyone has to have a starting point when entering a negotiation.

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Thanks for that lesson in economics, I didn't know how it worked. I guess I should pull out the cash value in my investments that are making more than than 1.9% interest I'm paying on a car loan so I can "own it" instead of the bank. That way I can feel better about the whole thing at night.

Now back to the original topic at hand, has anyone dealt with this situation before first hand?

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Originally Posted by OZMDD

I think this comes down to the definition of "reasonable" when considering compensation and reimbursement. As I already mentioned, if you really want to pursue the level of loss-of-use compensation you are deeming reasonable, be prepared to pay for representation when the insurance company refuses.

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I agree with you on this point. Most of the time insurance companies want to get out of liability for the least amount possible. I haven't decided what amount is "reasonable" yet. There's usually a balance point where the 2 parties can *eventually* reach an agreement. I'm more or less asking about experience with that process from anyone that has been through it. Not here to argue about what that exact amount is in a theoretical or real case.

JoJo....you are a perfect example of what is wrong with our justice system today.

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Originally Posted by sammm

JoJo....you are a perfect example of what is wrong with our justice system today.

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Thanks your Honor.

^Karma is a bitch. Write that down.

You must have done a lot of bad things in your younger days then by the looks of it ;)

Geez why is everyone so grumpy today :D

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Originally Posted by sammm

JoJo....you are a perfect example of what is wrong with our justice system today.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

You must have done a lot of bad things in your younger days then by the looks of it ;)

Geez why is everyone so grumpy today :D

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I can see both sides of this. And I agree mostly with your side. And you should be justly compensated as anyone should be. Perhaps insurace companies should offer a unique car rental service where you get the same exact type car as a rental. But as far as out of pocket cash for said rental its not going to happen at all. As I have tried to go that route and I didn't get a penny when I had a second car. I even went as far as to write up a rental to myself for my car that they wouldn't agree to pay me on. So believe me I feel your pain there. But unfortunately either you take their rental car that they are willing to provide to you or you don't get anything at all for compensation.

As far as what is wrong with the legal system is the fact that the insurance providers (Like all sales people) over promise and under deliever, to an extent that its just plain lies. And because they have more time and money than you makes it legal. (See sarcasm)

hmm. i didn't know you could ask for money rather than the rental... in the past i've just driven my secondary vehicle when possible... It would have been nice to get a small 'bonus' for the inconvenience of my car being in the shop due to someones vehicular ineptitude....

Being an adjuster I can tell you if you have declined a rental at this point good luck on getting anything, you have demonstrated to the insurance company you do not need a rental nor any "compensation".

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Originally Posted by VFR750

Being an adjuster I can tell you if you have declined a rental at this point good luck on getting anything, you have demonstrated to the insurance company you do not need a rental nor any "compensation".

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Not necessarily. She agreed to pay loss of use rather than rent me something for the duration of the repairs. It was negotiated up front when the claim was filed. The dollar amount is in question.

Hertz, Enterprise, and Avis are in the rental car business.
Exotic car rental companies are in the entertainment business.

$300 is ridiculous! Just because it might cost that to drive an elise per day no jury would ever award that to you. A more reasonable figure to ask for would be your monthly payment prorated for the number of days.

I think the question is what should be my loss of use and how do I determine the value?

We never want to look at the time and money we spend on our cars, setting up our cars, and consumables versus the amount of seat time. For many the joy is in both working on and driving their car. What's the average cost of an autocross run or a track session? If it was a business, it would be bankrupt. For me it would be more of a loss of enjoyment, not as much as rental reimbursement but including it in the number.

If I have a car I drive everyday and a second car I use for fun/weekend, recreation. One weekend at no fault to myself someone damages my recreation vehicle and I lose use of it for several weekends. True I don't need it everyday and would drive my other car while being repaired. But I miss out on my recreational use of that vehicle. Can I rent a comparable car, use it as such, and at what cost? Would they compensate me for the exotic rental and consumables? Could I decide to take cash in lieu of renting the exotic?

I think the amount equal to renting an equal car for the actual useage missed would be a fair amount. http://www.uptownexotics.com/search_...cturer_10.html. $299 a day for a Lotus looks like the going rate. This should not be charged for everyday the car is in the shop. Rather it would be based on the missed opportunities to drive my car if not renting a replacement.

Now the big question. What is my lose of enjoyment if I choose not to rent the replacement?

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Originally Posted by ken o

I think the question is what should be my loss of use and how do I determine the value?

We never want to look at the time and money we spend on our cars, setting up our cars, and consumables versus the amount of seat time. For many the joy is in both working on and driving their car. What's the average cost of an autocross run or a track session? If it was a business, it would be bankrupt. For me it would be more of a loss of enjoyment, not as much as rental reimbursement but including it in the number.

If I have a car I drive everyday and a second car I use for fun/weekend, recreation. One weekend at no fault to myself someone damages my recreation vehicle and I lose use of it for several weekends. True I don't need it everyday and would drive my other car while being repaired. But I miss out on my recreational use of that vehicle. Can I rent a comparable car, use it as such, and at what cost? Would they compensate me for the exotic rental and consumables? Could I decide to take cash in lieu of renting the exotic?

I think the amount equal to renting an equal car for the actual useage missed would be a fair amount. http://www.uptownexotics.com/search_...cturer_10.html. $299 a day for a Lotus looks like the going rate. This should not be charged for everyday the car is in the shop. Rather it would be based on the missed opportunities to drive my car if not renting a replacement.

Now the big question. What is my lose of enjoyment if I choose not to rent the replacement?

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That was exactly what was discussed up front.

1. It's a pleasure car, I don't expect loss of use for the full 54 calender days, just the 14 days I would have used it for pleasure on the weekends.

2. The $ amount is negotiatable, that's what I'm going to work out.

3. Is that $ amount calculated on a per day X $ to rent basis or on a monthly payment+insurance basis? What if I had a 24 month note and my payment was $1,000+ a month or a 72 month payment? What If I had no payment? Should I be penalized for not having a note on the car?

On the flip side what if I had a terrible driving record and my insurance was $1K a month? Should the insurance company have to eat that? I don't think a prorated payment+insurance cost makes sense as a way to calculate loss of use since there are too many variables. This is the whole basis of the thread to see if anyone has been in the situation before personally and how that $ amount was calculated.

I would calculate the real loss based on the days you would have driven the car.
Insurance cost per day + rent of a replacement per day X days = reimbursement for loss of use.
(Insurance is $10 per day + $299 rental) x 14 days = $4,326

For get that you are paying the note. That is a wash in the loss of use as you made the choice not to drive it everyday.

IMHO, the most reasonable thing to be compensated for would be to figure out the cost of ownership for those 54 days. If it was lease, the payment amount would go in to this calculation along with 15% of your annual registration, inspection, and insurance. IMHO, purchase payments are irrelevant. For a non-lease car, you instead need to look at the depreciation. Unfortunately, prices on 6 year old Elises seem to have already taken a good 40% depreciation hit, and I suspect that the current depreciation on the car has slowed down to less than $200/month.

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Originally Posted by Davidss

Hertz, Enterprise, and Avis are in the rental car business.
Exotic car rental companies are in the entertainment business.

$300 is ridiculous! Just because it might cost that to drive an elise per day no jury would ever award that to you. A more reasonable figure to ask for would be your monthly payment prorated for the number of days.

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First of all, why is everyone talking about a Jury? No one is going to court right now and I'm still in the negotiation stage to just figure out a dollar amount.

Hertz rented Elises. You can also rent a Bugatti Veyron from Hertz in CA. Pretty sure that qualifies as "entertainment". If the chain rental places were only in the rental car business and not the entertainment business they wouldn't carry stuff like Vettes, Camaro SS, Challenger, Bentleys etc. Besides, the car that was involved wasn't used for my transportation, it was used for my entertainment.

http://www.bhrac.com/page/menu/corp/our_uniq_fleet.html

http://www.budgetbeverlyhills.com/re...rs-gallery.asp

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Originally Posted by Titus

IMHO, the most reasonable thing to be compensated for would be to figure out the cost of ownership for those 54 days. If it was lease, the payment amount would go in to this calculation along with 15% of your annual registration, inspection, and insurance. IMHO, purchase payments are irrelevant. For a non-lease car, you instead need to look at the depreciation. Unfortunately, prices on 6 year old Elises seem to have already taken a good 40% depreciation hit, and I suspect that the current depreciation on the car has slowed down to less than $200/month.

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Car is not leased. And getting paid solely on depreciation makes no sense. That doesn't take into account the fact that I actually wanted to drive the car on the weekends. The real question here is, what should I be compensated for the time that I would drive the car but I couldn't? What would it have cost to get an equivalent car to drive during the time period that I missed out on.

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Originally Posted by ken o

I would calculate the real loss based on the days you would have driven the car.
Insurance cost per day + rent of a replacement per day X days = reimbursement for loss of use.
(Insurance is $10 per day + $299 rental) x 14 days = $4,326

For get that you are paying the note. That is a wash in the loss of use as you made the choice not to drive it everyday.

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Ken O gets it.

Since you discussed loss of use at the time of the claim being filed you did good. You do have a valid point, good luck with your negotiations. If I can ask, what insurance company is involved?

Turns out there was no negotiating. They gave me what I asked for. I'm happy with the result. The company was not a normal car insurance company (Allstate, State Farm etc) but rather a commercial insurance company as the lady that hit me was a business owner.

So far they have been no nonsense and this has been by FAR the easiest claim I've ever dealt with.

Interesting outcome on the M5, if you remember. Kinda goes with a DV claim.
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=386265

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Originally Posted by ken o

Interesting outcome on the M5, if you remember. Kinda goes with a DV claim.
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=386265

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They actually list the loss of use that was awarded in the post:

Loss of use of vehicle of a new M5 for 16 months = $18,858.00
Looks like right at a typical monthly payment for a new M5 for 16 months. But if you can get more then go for it!

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Originally Posted by Davidss

They actually list the loss of use that was awarded in the post:

Loss of use of vehicle of a new M5 for 16 months = $18,858.00
Looks like right at a typical monthly payment for a new M5 for 16 months. But if you can get more then go for it!

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there is a whole other side of the story than that FYI. and his lawyer is really the only winner there.

and thanks to that and other retards on both sides, we all pay higher insurance premiums.