Civic Si ---> NA Miata Advice

Hi, my name is Ryan, I'm 18 and live southwest of denton. Right now I have an '07 Civic Si that I am making large payments for and paying high insurance on. I have recently gotten into autocross and would really like to do track days. I am unable to spend as much as I would like on my civic to make it more suitable, plus FWD economy car is not exactly perfect for the track. This has got me thinking that a NA Miata might be a good switch. It would be my DD, commuting 30-50 miles a day, and I would also track/AutoX it once or twice a month. I would be spending about 5-6k on the car, with a budget of around 3k to prep it. Anyways, I just wanted to introduce myself, and hopefully I will be able to make the switch soon. I wanted to ask what would be my best bet as far as track upgrades go? I was thinking new wheels and tires. What is the largest you can go before rolling fenders and such? Any good tire/wheel combos? Any other upgrades that would be good for the track? Just want some advice from people who know what they are talking about.

Also, I'm currently looking at a 1995 NA with 100k miles for 5 grand. Pretty dang good condition. Good deal?

Welcome. I think you'll find the Miata a lot more fun to drive than the Honda.

Consider 15x8 wheels with 225mm tires. You don't need any more on a Miata unless you're adding forced induction.

A large front sway bar is almost a requirement. Stick with the stock rear bar. In fact, I rarely leave my stock rear bar connected for autocross and track days. Others might have different opinions on this.

The fender rolling will depend on how low you go with coilovers. Just get the tires and sway bar for now.

You might consider a rollbar.

Just get a nice NA, add good tires/shocks and a Big Red sway.
Then seat time, seat time, seat time!

A great old wheel told me when I started, to run 1 season stock.
"If you can't drive it stock, you won't be able to drive it prepared.
He was spot on.

Lots of good cone dodgers on on here to help with advice, as long as you can deal with the corrective criticism.

Where southwest of Denton? I'm hopefully moving back to Justin when I get home from here.

To echo what the others have said... run it stock for a while. I made the mistake of modding too much, too soon, without a plan in place or really even knowing what I wanted to do. I ended up with crappy coilovers and 17" wheels, a combination that threatened to jar my teeth out. Switched over to KYB AGX shocks and Tein springs, and Kosei K-1 wheels (15", I highly recommend them) and was infinitely more happy with the car. Big wheels just look wrong on a Miata anyway, and it's hard to find any lightweight ones.

Run it stock, and once you've improved yourself, you'll be able to tell what needs to be improved on the car.

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Originally Posted by MadMonkey

Where southwest of Denton? I'm hopefully moving back to Justin when I get home from here.

To echo what the others have said... run it stock for a while. I made the mistake of modding too much, too soon, without a plan in place or really even knowing what I wanted to do. I ended up with crappy coilovers and 17" wheels, a combination that threatened to jar my teeth out. Switched over to KYB AGX shocks and Tein springs, and Kosei K-1 wheels (15", I highly recommend them) and was infinitely more happy with the car. Big wheels just look wrong on a Miata anyway, and it's hard to find any lightweight ones.

Run it stock, and once you've improved yourself, you'll be able to tell what needs to be improved on the car.

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I like the way you did the racing stripe on your car. Looks good man

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Originally Posted by jrj512

Welcome. I think you'll find the Miata a lot more fun to drive than the Honda.

Consider 15x8 wheels with 225mm tires. You don't need any more on a Miata unless you're adding forced induction.

A large front sway bar is almost a requirement. Stick with the stock rear bar. In fact, I rarely leave my stock rear bar connected for autocross and track days. Others might have different opinions on this.

The fender rolling will depend on how low you go with coilovers. Just get the tires and sway bar for now.

You might consider a rollbar.

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This plus brake pads for the track. Save your mod money for track time, it is not cheap. Run every autocross you can and learn the car at the limit in a controlled environment. Ride with faster drivers and have them ride with you.

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Originally Posted by Strider

I like the way you did the racing stripe on your car. Looks good man

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Thanks :D

I live in Lantana, North of Flower Mound. Justin is pretty close. I test drove a '95 NA today after the BMW AutoX School and really liked it. I can probably talk the guy down to $4000, which I think is pretty good considering the condition. That would leave me with 4-5 grand as a spending budget. Off the bat, I think I'll just get tires (the current ones are like 640 tread wear!), maybe wheels to go with them, and then get used to that before doing sway bars, coilovers, etc. Thanks for all the input, hopefully I can make a deal soon!

Your Si isn't lowered and red with Enkei wheels is it, or maybe black with green wheels? I pass Lantana on my way to and from work at a mid school in FM.

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Originally Posted by Sharpie

Your Si isn't lowered and red with Enkei wheels is it, or maybe black with green wheels? I pass Lantana on my way to and from work at a mid school in FM.

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Nope, It looks bone stock. Only has bolt-ons. On my test drive, I noticed that the shifter is stiffer when you push it right to get to 5 and R than it is to pull it towards you for 1 and 2. Is that normal? Also, it had what sounded like a squeaky belt. Is that anything to worry about with an NA? Also is there a way to tell if someone has done the Timing Belt/Water Pump?

It is probably long-overdue for a tranny fluid change, and the shifter bushings wear out too. Those are both easy/cheap fixes that make a big difference in the shifting feel.

A 95 NA is a very good car to start in. If it runs well, doesn't have big leaks (almost all of them leak from the CAS at some point) and has a good A/C, everything else is simple enough to update/repair/live with.

I wouldn't recommend sinking $4K into a 95 though. If your budget is really $8-10K, just buy a built-up car for that price or get an NC. You'll never recoup $8K from a modded NA.

Good luck, have fun!

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Originally Posted by OZMDD

It is probably long-overdue for a tranny fluid change, and the shifter bushings wear out too. Those are both easy/cheap fixes that make a big difference in the shifting feel.

A 95 NA is a very good car to start in. If it runs well, doesn't have big leaks (almost all of them leak from the CAS at some point) and has a good A/C, everything else is simple enough to update/repair/live with.

I wouldn't recommend sinking $4K into a 95 though. If your budget is really $8-10K, just buy a built-up car for that price or get an NC. You'll never recoup $8K from a modded NA.

Good luck, have fun!

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Yeah, well I've actually lowered the mod budget a bit. I just going to buy a set of wheels/tires, and then fix whatever springs up. Maybe a new seat or something. No more than $2500 total. Another question, I am not sure if this car has an LSD. Would this make a difference on the Track/AutoX course? I am just wondering if an LSD could be a deal breaker.

^I actually like the seat in my '92. It sure doesn't look pretty, but it's pretty comfy.

If the '95 has cruise control and power antenna, it had a torsen LSD from the factory. Good to have a torsen.

I don't think it had those 2 things, although I'm not sure. I am ready to make a move on the car, will the diff be important? It seems like the open diff would put you at a real disadvantage.

Here is a .pdf that will help with features. http://www.miata.net/faq/Miata90-97A3.pdf

Yeah it doesn't have an LSD.

Even 4k seems like a lot to me for an 95. You can get an nb for about 5k with a bit over 100k miles on it if you look good enough

If it was an R package or M edition, the price would be ok, or if it had a hardtop. If the owner can show some proof of recent timing belt and water pump, it's only a little pricey. Torsen diffs are not that hard to swap in and within you mod budget. With none of the items mentioned, it's a little overpriced. You might end up dropping another $500+ in maintenance if it needs all the common items at 100k.

FYI - this is the most expensive time of year to buy a Miata.

So I've found a '94 on craigslist with some mods and it has cruise control, power antenna, 112k miles, asking 3800. I'm pretty sure it has the LSD. It has 16" XXR wheels, are those any good? link http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/2854654793.html

Much better price for the year. Doubt he's getting 30mpg though. My 94 gets 26mpg on average. Wheels look nice, just wish they were 15". It's worth checking out.

The seller won't be back for a month :mad: but I did find this, and it is perfect. I know its not and m package, but it has cruise control and pwr antenna which points to lsd. Very low miles as well. Now I just need to get a price

http://www.budgetusedcarsales.net/pr...zip=&distance=

The photos are not of an M Edition. But, at only 76k miles, it's worth a look. Let us know about the price.

Yeah I know. But it is pretty loaded regardless. Hopefully they're reasonable on price

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Originally Posted by rmonheim

So I've found a '94 on craigslist with some mods and it has cruise control, power antenna, 112k miles, asking 3800. I'm pretty sure it has the LSD. It has 16" XXR wheels, are those any good? link http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/2854654793.html

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It's hard to find good rubber for 16" wheels (read other threads regarding).

But hey, it does have a "role over bar"

Check out this one. It's a little more than you were looking to spend, but the "full maintenance" package with hardtop gets you a really sweet low mileage M edition that needs nothing. Throw a set of sticky tires and some 6ULs and a sway bar and you are rockin.
http://www.funcarsforsale.com/invent...%2078K%20Miles

Dude, you're the effin man. That is a sweet deal, thanks so much for the link. I had no idea this place even existed.

Ok it's time to bust up this miata love fest!

Hey Ryan this is David your instructor from the autox school yesterday. Let me play devils advocate here. Do you really want to give up your nice new car for something older than you are? You should go test drive a miata, go cruise down the highway at 80mph with the top up and then get back into your own car and see the difference. My advice to you is to stick with what you have for at least a few months if not this season. Buying an car specifically for autocross after only 2 events is a little silly. Especially when you already have a fast prepped car on good tires. In fact your car would be faster on most road courses than a similarly prepped NA miata. Why not do a few more events, ask around about classes, prep, and costs. Then you'll be a lot better prepared to make the right call. And prices tend to be higher on miatas in the spring, and much lower in the fall and winter..... But if you can't wait:

1. I would buy an already prepped miata. You should be able to find a car already prepped for $4-5k. This will save you a lot of money and years of learning and development.
2. If you want to buy a stock one get either a 90-93 with the LSD, or a 94-97 without the LSD, or a 99 with an LSD. This will give you the option of running the car competitively in SCCA classing.
3. Why not get an S2K? If you sold your Civic you could buy a really nice S2000 which is a better daily driver.

^ Davidss is very wise!! :clap:

David, I see your point. But...while I really like the civic, the payments are way too much for an 18 year old with a hourly wage job. The car cost 15 grand, not to mention the high insurance and upgrade costs. I had to borrow a lot from my parents, and I want to get into something I can actually afford myself, with some left over for maintenance, tires, etc. I am not too terribly worried about being competitive in SCCA, as I probably won't make it to as many events as I would like, since I will be starting in College Station this fall. I wish I could afford an S2k, Driving my dads AP2 yesterday was pretty sweet. But again, it makes no financial sense. If I had more to spend, I would stay in the Civic, but it just won't work out.

BTW, I wanted to say thanks for all of the instruction yesterday, I was amazed at the difference in my driving at the end of the day.

Everything David says is absolutely true. At the same time, recognizing you are spending more than you can/want to is smart. If you do grab a $5-6K Miata that is up to date on service, you'll be in good shape for college and won't have to worry about driving people around. :) Since 90% of Aggies own a pickup, you won't be burdened by the lack of cargo space, and I suspect a miata will be a good "date" car for spirited country-road drives. No back seat :(

TAMU has a very good autocross club and runs at their own site, and a lot of them have miatas, so there is a good knowledge base for service/repairs/upgrades. If you can live with the small size and lack of creature comforts, you'll enjoy the driving, cheap fuel/insurance/tire/maintainence costs.

Good luck.

So, bit of an update. I talked with the seller last week, and I decided to purchase the vehicle. I picked it up Saturday morning, and I am really impressed with the car. It is in all around great condition, especially considering it is as old as I am and I got it for $4800. It does need some work, but that was to be expected. It is a complete blast to drive compared to my civic, even though it has less than half the horsepower. And to be honest, I think it is more comfortable and nearly just as quiet with the hard top on. I've already ordered star specs, shocks, a timing kit, and some other small things. I'm gonna run it in E stock for this season, and see where I want to go after that.