Printable View
So...
What does it take, in terms of equipment and dollars, to get into online racing like iRacing and the others? How does it compare to picking up a new PS3 and GT5?
• Will this work with an iMac, or are these PC-based?
• Screen-wise, is it best to get a bigger dedicated monitor?
• What are my wheel/pedal options?
• Cost for the software and monthly subscriptions?
• Quality of graphics, realism, and physics?
Talk me into it...or out of it...
M
I've got a Logitech G25 that I need to sell off :) Pedals, Wheel, Shifter combo.
iRacing is PC based, I would say the best is to have 3 monitors of normal size, for the wide field of view. Second to that a big monitor is good. THere are a ton of wheel and pedal products now. You can go from 100 logitech beginner set to the 300 G27. I am now using a g27 wheel with fanatec pedals. You can move from there as high as your budget allows. Keep in mind that there are people that will blow your doors off with very basic equipment, so it is more about the immersion than raw speed when you up the ante.
iRacing is month to month, I just renewed for the year on black friday for $50. So about the cost of Xbox live. The base package comes with several road cars and a couple of oval cars with tracks for each. You definitely get enough content to see if it is what you want or not. So really if you just get one month for $12 that is all you are out. I do recommend to give it some time, it isnt something you can just jump into and be the best or even at your best. In the rookie racing there are idiots, but you can quickly move up out of the really bad racing if you just keep your nose clean and finish races.
The graphics are great, realistic. The PS3 tends to have more photo effects, but last time I checked my eyes dont have lens flare or many of the other things that are added to make it shiny. The physics aren't perfect just because they have really begun to simulate the tires to very detailed levels where most games used to just make it feel good, but it was not a simulation of the actual things going on. So there are a few issues, the cars tend to be a little slippery at slow speeds, but most of the problems people complain about on the forums are nit picky to me. Im not top level by any means so I usually throw on a setup I find on the forums and drive.
The main thing that I like versus GT5 is that you are A)racing people and B) more than 5 others. In the full 24 or so car fields there are battles up and down the field and I usually find my self tired at the end from pushing for a 45 minute race. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Hmm, ok. Well ... here is how I got into it. Way back when, my wife and I decided we needed a DVD player. I had been reading about the PS3 and the advantages of the software updates to stay current on the latest formats, so I talked her into letting me get one. I don't play a lot of games. But I bought a couple to just see what the hype was about. Long story short, I soon found out about Gran Turismo 5, got it, loved it, have been playing it ever since. As mentioned above, it has it's quirks. The online races are full of kids driving backwards and generally acting like morons. But if you hook up with other like minded individuals (either on a forum like this or in one of the online racing associations), you can generally setup a private room and the racing is top notch.
I am now looking at some of the PC based games myself. The PS3 is great because it's super easy to get started. The PC seems a little more involved, especially for us Mac folk. But it's doable. The motivation to tackle the extra headache is ... Project:Cars. Here are a couple of videos to get the juices flowing (the game isn't out yet, these were recorded by people playing an Alpha version):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=322VD38f5bA
There is also another really cool game coming out called rFactor 2. This is a very established racing community too, and the graphics look amazing with this one as well. Here's a comparison video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUQY-iv_fQ0
Keep in mind that Project:Cars and rFactor 2 are both still under development. But what is exciting about this is that there are a lot of people out there getting into racing online in the most sophisticated simulators of racing ever created. The graphics keep getting better. The physics keeps getting better. It's a really fun way to compete with zero risk to self and car in real life.
One of the things that I really like about it too is the livery editors. Imagine racing Miata's with DFWMiata logos on them. ;)
Here's an example of that from iRacing (another sim) from the SupaTuna forums:
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/k...coSolstice.jpg
I started with a cheap wheel (~$100) that could attach to the front of my PC desk. The current best "budget" wheel is the Logitech Driving force GT wheel, that is compatible with both PS2/3 and PC and goes for $100 to $130 depending on sales you catch. The wheel is very good, but a little noisy. The pedals are cheap tho.
rFactor is ~$20 and the best if you want to race online with others without monthly fee. Huge number of free mods available so you can race basically any track/car combo you want. 30s F1- yep. 60s Muscle: yep. World of Outlaws, ALMS/Le Mans, Miatas, modern F1: all available. Mods are all done by other gamers, so there is variation in quality, but the good ones are outstanding. AI stinks tho.
The Simbin Race series also has good AI and good netcode, but not as many online leagues use it. A older, but very good game is GTR2. It has a very good series of training tutorials for new sim-drivers as well as being a very good sim of GT racing. It also is the base for the Power&Glory mod, which is a free mod that changes the game into a serious sim of 60s and 70s sports car racing. Vettes and Cobras and GT40s!
I raced with my wheel on my desk for a couple of years before moving up. You step up to a $250-350 wheel and its quite, and has better pedals, shifter, etc. I have a Logitech G25, which was replaced by the G27 now. You can also get a cockpit/racing seat for anywhere from say $300 to thousands. I've got an Obuttu which is at the low end of nice. I did not go with a triple screen, but a single large screen.
rFactor 2 is coming along, and my league does run it. I was going to get it for Christmas, but got a Miata instead :)
I have a PS2 and GT3 or 4, and a set of Logitech pedals and wheel. Just haven't pulled it out in a while.
The PC may be a deal breaker. I'm pretty much a Mac guy, and and don't really want to spend $500+ (or more) on a PC/monitor that will only be used for this purpose. Was hoping there is something out there for us Apple dweebs...
Go talk to Johnwag and play his games. He has a crazy set-up at his house with 3 different games.
Ok, just noticed I didn't really answer your questions. I can only really speak to GT5 on the PS3. So, in short order:
• Will this work with an iMac, or are these PC-based?
Requires a PS3.
• Screen-wise, is it best to get a bigger dedicated monitor?
Uses your TV.
• What are my wheel/pedal options?
http://ps3.mmgn.com/Articles/Gran-Turismo-5-Racing-wheels-c (I have the Driving Force GT lower end model)
• Cost for the software and monthly subscriptions?
Zero, zip, nil, nada.
• Quality of graphics, realism, and physics?
GT5 falls into the category of a simulator. In the console world, it's #1. However, it doesn't quite match up to the latest simulators on the PC which are subscription based and thus have revenue coming in all the time for things like patches and updates. The PC world is where the serious simulations are being developed.
That said, I find the graphics very good. Realism? Having been to one track day ... don't expect it to match driving in real life on a real track. However, what's pretty amazing is that they've modeled the physics to a point where the driving techniques you use on the track apply in the sim. That's been the thing that I've been most impressed with. If you drive clean, you drive fast. If you are late breaking and drifting going into a corner you lose speed and get passed.
We had a race the other night in bone stock Ford Focus' with a bunch of good drivers. Two packs formed during the race, one up front and one chasing from behind. The group of front consisted of 5 cars all running almost exact lap times with one another. We were literally rubbing door handles coming around some of these corners. You could hear the other drivers giggling at the insanity of it on their headsets. It was a lot of fun.
MS
I have a MacBook Pro, one of the new ones. I'm going to try to use Bootcamp to run both rFactor 2 and Project:Cars here shortly on Windows XP SP2. I'll let you know how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeedracer
MS
I looked, and there doesn't appear to be any good Mac race sims. You could look into some of the sw that lets you run PC games under mac, or maybe set up some sort of dual boot.
I have an Obutto seat with a G25, which sits in front of a 105" screen.
- Sounds nice, but it doesn't permit looking ahead. You're not going to like this, but a 3-monitor setup is the way to go.
I let my iRacing subscription expire, so now use rFactor, LiveforSpeed (has AutoX), and RaceOn on the PC.
- Graphics and feedback are good, but again the "looking ahead" is the thing that ultimately kills the experience for me.
From what I've heard, the Xbox/Forza is a better choice form a console standpoint than PS3/GT5, but I can't speak from experience.
XBox/Forza is more for the arcade style racing fans.
I've played them all, Forza is pretty good. Forza does a better job of managing the trade-off between momentum and shortest distance than iRacing at least. The tire model is better as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by strathound
You should be able to run bootcamp to get Win 7 on your iMac. I suspect there are some discussions on the respective games' forums on how to... I'm still using some retired PC hardware, though, so I can't offer firsthand experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeedracer
I'm a big fan of Forza. It has a very solid "feel" to it. However, I think a multi-monitor setup is crucial for translation to/from real world experience, and that could get spendy with Forza... That said, I seem to have at least 1 extra xbox lying around... Just need 1 more!Quote:
Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq
You can have 3 monitors on your Macs... I do it with USB dongles at work (which might be ok for side views).
You also might try parallels, but not sure if you get enough of the graphics oomph that way. Basecamp will get you there though since then you're running on bare metal.
There are other options if you want more view but do not want triplesreen. For free in the PC sims is the look to apex option. Basically you turn the wheel and the view turns to (you set % of turn). I find I can find the apex pretty well with that, and many people do not know about the option. You can also map buttons for quick checks to right/left/back
Another option is Track-IR. Basically its a head-tracker, so where you look is where the screen looks. Therefore you can look into the turn, check your sides, etc. Many people swear by it.
IRacing is the best driving simulator and the best racing. End of story. If you're patient you can get a good deal on the service. I got two years for $100.
I have a G27 wheel and play on a 102" screen. :) fanatec makes good wheels and pedals but they cost more. I got my G27 shipped new from newegg for $225 on sale a while back.
GT5 and Forza are fun, but iRacing is another level up on realism.
Sales on Simbin bundle on Steam for $23. Includes GT Legends, GTR2, and basically all of the Race and Race07 series. Good deal for someone just getting into simracing.
PS - you have to be able to realize that sim racing is not real racing. Too many people play GT5 or iRacing on my setup and complain. You can learn a lot from a sim if you can leave your complaints at the door.
And, regarding tire models: iRacing or rFactor 2 get the nod over consoles. The processing power of a console simply cannot compete with a PC when it comes to physics modeling. GT5/Forza are very good for consoles, but they just don't get the physics as good as their PC competitors.
Good info, everyone.
Sadly, I don't want to go down PC road to make this work...
Then be aware: you pretty much have to get a wireless fanatec wheel if you want a decent wheel on xbox. Logitec wheels are not compatible with xbox. Fanatec wheels are good, but pricey.
Online racing is like masturbating. You can see it; it looks real; but it is missing the true feel of the road.
Yeah, but online racing while masterbating ... best of both worlds.
Driving while having sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by strathound
Ironically, it's hard to spell using just one hand...Quote:
Originally Posted by strathound
Online racing has really made a breakthru in the last few years in realism. At this point I bet a majority of the top road racers are using sims actively in their practice, from F1 to ALMS to whatever.
iRacing Seminar March 6-9 Southlake:
http://irace4life.org/page14/
No affiliation, but a friend of mine from Cincinnati is coming down to attend.
Pretty cool. Might be fun to checkout the seminar. I'd love to hear if they have a Mac client coming anytime soon.
For those interested, here is what 39 drivers running rfactor looks like.
Was a pretty clean, well fought race.
That looks hella fun. I know that online racing won't be for everyone. But I'm almost tempted to bite the bullet and build another dang PC gaming machine just to join you guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by eliandi
On a side note, I still prefer the graphics on Gran Turismo 5 for some reason. Those cars look great, but there is something about them that is still arcade-like. I'm sure that's done to support that many cars on the track at the same time. Sometimes tradeoffs are made for performance. Anyways, it doesn't matter. What matters is gameplay and driving experience. And I've been dying waiting for the autox this weekend. This would be a nice distraction while I wait.
Hmmm, another PC? Dangit.
MS
The original video, before youtube compression, looks much better. But you are correct, GT5 is better eye candy while rfactor and iracing and such are better physics and netcode. In a race like this where you are running so close and damage is set to realistic levels, ping is far more critical than some special shine effects or lighting bloom :) The big thing of course is all those drivers are also humans, and there is no reset button in a long race. Really amps up the experience.
The next gen of PC sims is due this year (rFactor 2, GTR3, CARS, etc) and should all have better graphics.