My Lexus is possessed.

For those of you who don't follow my turbo Lexus build thread on Club Roadster, here's the quick background.

I've had the car for several years as my daily driver. It's fantastic. Reliable, classy, comfy, sporty, etc. I recently brought it to Jeff Tsai of Power Dynamix for what he dubs the "Stage 2" turbo setup. Target power is around 375 at the wheels. Not difficult for a 2JZ.

I got the car back this week and soon discovered a **VERY STRANGE** bug. A full recounting is transcribed from CR.net below.

If anyone sees this and, in your vast history of car modification/maintenance knowledge, has insight into this really weird problem, please let me know.

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This morning was STRANGE. I've experienced some automotive voodoo like none other. I've sworn, in the past, that certain cars were haunted or possessed. But that's always tongue in cheek. This time...notsomuch.

Last night when I picked my car up I turned the key to crank the engine and it didn't start. Jeff explained that, due to the oversized injectors, the car will occasionally flood and might need a little throttle to get it started. (Turns out this is almost never the case...but I digress.) He hopped in the car and it started immediately.

I drove it home, parked it and had a great night's sleep with dreams of open-dump wastegate (yes!) and fluttery BOV noises waiting for my morning drive to the office.

Got in the car this morning, turned the key and it cranked but wouldn't turn over. I gave it some throttle like Jeff showed me and it wouldn't turn over. Lexus has a "flood-clear" mode so I engaged that by holding the accelerator pedal to the floor and cranking for 10 seconds. Still wouldn't start after that.

So I called Jeff and he decided to come over during lunch to take a look.

He got to my house. Turned the key and the car immediately idled and purred like a very large, hungry kitten.

I told him that I was hoping that wouldn't happen but I was glad it did. Assuming it was just a fluke, he was getting ready to leave. Before he did, I wanted him to observe me starting the car just to make sure all was kosher. We shut the car off. I got in. Turned the key. Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Wouldn't turn over.

Odd.

Jeff got in. Started right up.

I got in...wouldn't turn over.

Jeff got in. Started right up.

I got in...wouldn't turn over.

FOR ONE SOLID HOUR the car started 100% of the time for him and 0% of the time for me.

We checked grounds, pulled fault codes, plugged into the FIC and monitored all sensors while he (successfully) started the car.

It made absolutely no sense. So we got my neighbor...I kid you not this is how we were troubleshooting my car...to try and start the car. It wouldn't start for him.

Jeff got in. Started right up.

So I called my wife who was 15 minutes away at a friend's house and told her to bring her set of keys over. (We thought maybe the transponder in my key was somehow to blame.)

She got in. STARTED RIGHT UP!

All. Of. The. Fucks.

So here's where we were at. The car starts and runs fine with absolutely zero issues if Jeff or my wife turns the key. If I or my neighbor turn the key the car refuses to turn over.

So we started turning the key without sitting int he car by reaching in through the open door. We tried gloves. We isolated ourselves from every inch of the car with layers of towels.

Still started 100% of the time for Jeff and 0% of the time for me.

UNTIL!!!! Jeff had the FIC plugged into his laptop via the USB cable. Mind you...NO applications were running. The computer was just on. I turned the key. Started right up.

WHAT THE FUCK?

So I got my Macbook Pro. Plugged in the USB cable. Started right up. Put my Mac to sleep with the cable still plugged in. Car wouldn't start.

So...now...get this...my routine for starting the car is to plug the tuning cable into my Macbook Pro, wake the computer, then turn the key. Otherwise, the car WILL NOT start for me.

So...obviously there is an electrical gremlin somewhere. But it does not, at all, explain why the car will start EVERY DAMN TIME for 50% of the people who turn the key and NOT EVER for the other 50%.

We'll eventually fix it. Jeff is determined to do so when he has the car next week to replace the coil packs and turn up the boost.

Still...I'm weirded out. I've never had a car issue that was 100% dependent on which human was interfacing with the vehicle.

Really weird. I don't believe his story on "the injectors are too big for good cold-start" unless he's running EV1s or something which is dumb.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, burn that thing to the ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq

Really weird. I don't believe his story on "the injectors are too big for good cold-start" unless he's running EV1s or something which is dumb.

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You're right. He was just trying to offer up a solution for why the car didn't start that time when I tried it. It's got ~850cc injectors in it now and stock is ~275 or something. So that was his best guess as to why it didn't fire up right away.

For what it's worth, when the car is being started by someone who has the right mojo, it starts instantly and idles perfectly. The injector size, it turns out, is a non-issue.

Does the car have a manual transmission?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mk2tmr2

You're right. He was just trying to offer up a solution for why the car didn't start that time when I tried it. It's got ~850cc injectors in it now and stock is ~275 or something. So that was his best guess as to why it didn't fire up right away.

For what it's worth, when the car is being started by someone who has the right mojo, it starts instantly and idles perfectly. The injector size, it turns out, is a non-issue.

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On a related note...can I do some burn-outs in your VIP car?

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Originally Posted by Davidss

Does the car have a manual transmission?

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Clutch-key depression/activation order crossed my mind too.

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Originally Posted by Davidss

Does the car have a manual transmission?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq

Clutch-key depression/activation order crossed my mind too.

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That'd be too easy. No...it's an automatic.

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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq

On a related note...can I do some burn-outs in your VIP car?

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Any time.

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Originally Posted by mk2tmr2

That'd be too easy. No...it's an automatic.


Any time.

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I am Yakuza.

Do you have to press the brake to start it?

I have seen before (on a manual trans car) where you had to press the pedal at a certain angle to engage the switch. I would try having Jeff sit in the driver seat and you turn the key from the passenger seat. And vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Davidss

Do you have to press the brake to start it?

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Nope. And I tried with/without my foot on the brake.

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I have seen before (on a manual trans car) where you had to press the pedal at a certain angle to engage the switch. I would try having Jeff sit in the driver seat and you turn the key from the passenger seat. And vice versa.

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Did that. Regardless of which seat we sat in, it started for him and not for me.

We even tried him reaching in through the door while I was sitting in the driver's seat (and vice verse) with the same results.

We tried turning the key while touching various parts of the car's interior and chassis (to ground ourselves) and it started 100% for him and 0% for me.

We tried completely insulating ourselves from the car - and even from the key - using layers of towels and it still started for him and not for me.

We also tried both of my keys with the same results. So that rules out a particular key transponder being the culprit.

I'm telling you guys...this is really, really weird.

Not that I don't believe you. We have known each other since the MR2 days. But I want to see a video of this!!!

Didn't get a chance to do the video last night. Trey came over at the spur of the moment to help get the city driving part of Rooster's tune dialed in. He did get to witness the Lexus weirdness. Turns out it won't start for him either. But he got to see how it does start for my wife.

Also...a new development. I got a really long set of channel locks and reached across from the passenger side of the car to turn the key with them...and it worked! The car started. I guess I distanced myself far enough away to remove my "aura" from interfering.

This, while sucking completely for you, is just incredible. Since we're clearly in the realm of the super natural, think hard. Did you recently cut off a crazy looking lady with a necklace made of chicken bones or something? Voodoo? Did you break any mirrors? Park that sucker, wait 7 years. Any black cats? Spilled salt? Did you screw up the i before e except after c rule? Have you tried rearranging the furniture in your house for better feng shui?

I've got it. Print out a life size picture of the tuner's face, glue it onto a paper plate, hold said plate in front of your face, then turn key.

My old turbo wagon did this to me. I sold it to the person who got it started on the first try. Turned out to be some oddity in the fuel pump wiring in conjunction with a bad OE fpr.

Have you even pulled out a volt meter to check anything at all? Sounds like you just keep trying variations of the same thing expecting a different result. You have to isolate things in the system to test and fix.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoonieGT

I've got it. Print out a life size picture of the tuner's face, glue it onto a paper plate, hold said plate in front of your face, then turn key.

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PLEASE let this work!!! Or better yet, a Guy Fawkes mask...

Any type of weird sensors in the drivers seat? Maybe it thinks the seat is empty and won't start? Very strange.

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Originally Posted by sammm

Any type of weird sensors in the drivers seat? Maybe it thinks the seat is empty and won't start? Very strange.

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Nope. I can be sitting in the seat and my wife can simply reach in through the window and turn the key and it will start.

Just had one of my employees try and start it. Wouldn't start for him.

So now the count is:

Will start for 3 people
Will not start for 4 people

Have you checked to make sure the battery cable is secure? I did a stereo install once that included a new post that incorporated a special connector for amp power wire. The new post did not securely hold the cars lead to the battery. The connection was good enough for the accessories to turn on, but not car. Worth double checking the battery...

I'm gonna guess its a static electricity zap -- wouldn't take much. Cloth or leather? What kind of shoes and clothes are all the subjects wearing? (Everybody get naked! Or you could touch the chassis before you touch the key. Less fun, though.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoonieGT

Have you checked to make sure the battery cable is secure? I did a stereo install once that included a new post that incorporated a special connector for amp power wire. The new post did not securely hold the cars lead to the battery. The connection was good enough for the accessories to turn on, but not car. Worth double checking the battery...

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Checked all grounds and, yes, the battery cable. The odd thing is, we've attempted to start the car probably 100 times. And the human variable is 100% replicable. If it were a loose connection, I could understand the car starting 50% of the time regardless of who is turning the key. But it's not like that. It starts 100% of the time for certain people and 0% of the time for certain other people.

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Originally Posted by redmenace

I'm gonna guess its a static electricity zap -- wouldn't take much. Cloth or leather? What kind of shoes and clothes are all the subjects wearing? (Everybody get naked! Or you could touch the chassis before you touch the key. Less fun, though.)

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Leather interior. And we tried all methods of grounding ourselves to the chassis before and during turning the key. Doesn't make a difference.

Could it be the way the key is put into the lock and turned? Maybe your wife has a different methodology for inserting and turning the key?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redmenace

I'm gonna guess its a static electricity zap -- wouldn't take much. Cloth or leather? What kind of shoes and clothes are all the subjects wearing? (Everybody get naked! Or you could touch the chassis before you touch the key. Less fun, though.)

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Hunny, I need you to come out to the garage and get naked with me.

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Originally Posted by miataspeedracer

Could it be the way the key is put into the lock and turned? Maybe your wife has a different methodology for inserting and turning the key?

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Don't think so. I've tried every combination of fingers touching/not touching the key. Tried applying leverage to the key in various directions while turning.

Remember that it starts for me just fine as long as the USB cable is plugged into a laptop which is on. I don't turn the key differently in that scenario.

This sounds like a ridiculous riddle but it's really not. It's just the weirdest car glitch I've ever heard of.

Just had my other employee try starting the car. Didn't start for him, either.

Updated count:

Will start for 3 people
Will not start for 5 people

The USB/laptop thing is exactly why I thought static electricity could be a factor: your movement may be identical, but the laptop affords you an opportunity to discharge. (Wait, that came out wrong.) (Ha!)

This has correlation vs causation written all over it... in voodoo chicken blood!

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Originally Posted by mk2tmr2

Just had my other employee try starting the car. Didn't start for him, either.

Updated count:

Will start for 3 people
Will not start for 5 people

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Have you done any time thinking about what sets the 3 people apart from the 5? Positive attitudes? Religion? Sexual prowess?

The car just doesn't like you Steve. Start's for the wife and tuner guy.... Hmmm? Maybe the three of them are planning to run away.

Perhaps.... the car is jealous.

http://www.actwin.com/toaph/life/cars/tv/christine.jpg

Try touching the key to bare metal then starting, and try touching bare metal while starting.

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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq

Try touching the key to bare metal then starting, and try touching bare metal while starting.

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Tried that.

Install a remote start.

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Originally Posted by Nails

Install a remote start.

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I have already looked into the transponder bypass device that is used when a remote start is installed. I am tempted to try this. But only after we go through all the wiring one more time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mk2tmr2

I have already looked into the transponder bypass device that is used when a remote start is installed. I am tempted to try this. But only after we go through all the wiring one more time.

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Have you tried a different key? Don't they have a sort of mysterious chip?

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Originally Posted by Jim m

Have you tried a different key? Don't they have a sort of mysterious chip?

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Yup. It isn't all that mysterious. The key has a transponder that submits an encrypted code that matches the ECU. I have 2 keys. Doesn't matter which one I use.

Have you removed the trim surrounding the steering column to inspect the ignition switch wiring?

LS1 swap?

LS1 swap would be fun. Have not inspected the ign switch wiring yet. All of that will be gone over with a fine toothed comb this week.

Figured this out, by the way.

It boiled down to a technique issue.

The way the FIC has to be wired up is a bit odd. It needs to be wired in to the ACC circuit. Of course, that circuit is only hot when the key is in the ACC or ON positions. It cuts out when the key is turned to START so that all power can go to the starter. However, there's this in-between spot in the key's throw that engages the starter while the ACC circuit is still hot.

Turn the key too far into the START position and the FIC is shut off and the car won't start.

Humans are pretty habitual creatures. So the reason the car started reliably for some people and not for others came down to the technique they used to start the car. Some people turn the key more gently than others, I suppose.

We had a collective facepalm when we realized what the issue was. There were literally 10 people taking turns trying to start the car and figure out why it would start for some and not for others.

Now that the coil packs are replaced and some other wrinkles ironed out, the car is an absolute blast to drive. In a couple months I'll be having the transmission built so that we can turn the boost up and hit the 400whp goal. Right now it's at around 330-350.

Duh! Told ya...
;)

"Could it be the way the key is put into the lock and turned? Maybe your wife has a different methodology for inserting and turning the key?"