Looking for a 94-97 RB header in good shape.
Thanks,
Chris
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Looking for a 94-97 RB header in good shape.
Thanks,
Chris
Nobody?
I don't want to buy an eBay knockoff.
C
^Yes you do! :D
I rarely see the RB headers for sale. They're very difficult to get. I"ve looked multiple times with no luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar
Did you install it sammm? Did it work out?Quote:
Originally Posted by sammm
Yeah, I've searched through previous sales on the main Miata sites, and there have been less than a handful sold. Looks like I'll have to pay full freight. Which makes me wonder how much power it'll make over the existing ancient Jackson Racing header I already have.
C
I did get the header installed. Rogue had to do some minor surgery on my new mid-pipe...plan to pick it up tomorrow evening if he's available.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwag
What's wrong with your JR header? Is it cracked or you just want a shiny header again? I doubt you will notice any difference in power with a new RB. Not crapping on your thread, just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar
Here's how I made my "ancient" JR header all shiny and new again. $40 vs $450.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps7b5aa9be.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps8c0a388e.jpg
Edit: oh are you changing to 4 to 1? In that case there might be some difference in the torque curve I guess.
Years ago I used header wrap and it destroyed the header. Header wrap is bad. It fatigues the metal due to insulating and increasing operating temps of the header. It will crack. You're better off with ceramic coating and/or a TDR heat shield which keeps an air pocket between the header and the insulating material. Air is the best insulator and keeps the header temps in check.
Regarding the JR vs. RB header, the RB is more efficient. It's a 4-1 versus 4-2-1 and has larger diameter piping. The quality is also superior. Beautiful welds and durable as all get out. I've seen JR headers crack but never seen any Racing Beat product fail ever!
The RB Headers are on a nation wide back order. We have some on order and they are due in late October or early November. I have a 90-93 and a 01-05 in stock. 94-97 and 99-00 are on order.
If anyone is interested in getting a header, please let me know and I can add to our back-order. We can save you on shipping.
^Yea I read all about header wrap is bad mmmkay, but I saw plenty of people with other experiences. The science of it does make sense though, but I figured my JR was wrapped already and looked like crap, and bonus, the header never gets hot with the car endlessly sitting in the garage ::Clown::
Not to distract from the thread. Was curious about spending $450 over an existing header.
Header wrap is an established, effective solution to improve header efficiency and reduce radiant heat. While it may add some stress to the metal, it also slows the expansion/contraction rates, which can extend the life. I would say that it is only a problem when used on a poorly-welded or inferior quality product, or when used in situations where significant moisture is an issue. I've had excellent luck with properly-applied header wrap, as have countless others. If I were starting from scratch (which I did on my most recent header) I would go with ceramic coating, but I also wouldn't hesitate to wrap a non-coated header, particularly if it were polished stainless, which radiates a TON of heat.
I sort of came to the realization that while the RB is superior to the JR, it's not worth $500. I already have two 25' rolls of DEI Titanium wrap, and will probably pull the header and wrap it this weekend.
In the mean time, I'll keep my eyes out for a used RB (Wags is probably hoarding a few for all I know).
C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-8CSa9xj8Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar
Sadly, i'm not. SirHustleresq got both of mine last year....one for his track car and one for the vvt swapped daily. They live good lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by chriscar
I have a 99-00 RB header in the garage, but it's not for sale. :)
I should have moved here earlier!
C
I was lucky enough to get one of Johnwag's used RB headers a few years ago. Its still running strong.
Here is a little snippet I found online. Really though, I go off of my personal experience as well as common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
Quote:
THE FACTS:
· Header wraps are designed to keep the heat in the header to improve scavenging of the cylinders. Keeping the heat in the header allows the exhaust speed to remain high. (the right idea)
· Header wraps, by keeping the heat in the header, also reduces the radiant heat in the engine bay.
· There are no header manufacturers that I know of that will warranty their headers if any header wrap is installed on their products.
· In most cases the header wrap damages the headers beyond repair. (I will explain below)
· If you run a lean mixture, you "may" see a slim performance gain using header wraps. A rich mixture may show slim to absolutely NO gain in performance.
· If you do not mind replacing your headers and header gaskets regularly, and you like that ugly look of a wrapped header, go ahead and use the heat wrap.
BACKGROUND INFORMATION:
In the past, almost all NASCAR and other racing engine builders and crew chiefs used header wraps for the added power gains and thermal control benefits offered by their use. Problems occurred when these same teams had to replace the headers after each race (NASCAR) due to the wrap being about the only thing holding each header together. Most engine builders, crew chiefs, and definitely the header manufacturers themselves do not promote the practice of installing these wraps directly on the headers. They now utilize the thermal coatings that are chemically and electrically applied to the headers. Popular header coating services include Airborn, Jet Hot, HPC, and some header manufacturers now applying the thermal coatings in-house.
Imagine having to replace a $1500.00+ set of headers after each race weekend! Few but the most financially well-off race teams can afford to do this. Also, consider the downtime in remaking a custom set of headers. Most custom header makers do not have copies readily available.
I believe that the wraps are good to protect various under hood 'items' from heat, but not for the use of holding the heat in the header. For example: you can use the wrapping for the protection of fuel and oil lines, wiring, covering a starter motor, etc.
Cool air needs to be around the header, and insulating it with a wrap to hold exhaust heat in makes the header material surface temperatures reach near molten levels. When you wrap the header you trap the heat in the header, but also suffocate the material that needs to breathe to dissipate heat for its own survival.
Engineers, Metallurgists, and other experts out there will state that there is no way that the material can fail because it was designed to withstand the internal temperatures of exhaust gases. This is very TRUE! But, when the header is not allowed to cool (or breathe) so as to dissipate those extreme temperatures that the wrap is controlling, you have now developed a heat absorption that compares to thermal friction. This causes temperatures to continue to rise beyond the normal exhaust gas temperatures (EGT's) the header material was designed to withstand. This holds true as with most any type insulation.
The EGTs stay the same but the properties of the header material changes by amplifying the temperature due to the insulation. This action goes against normal laws of thermal dynamics, but this effect is fact, and you have to pull the ears off most engineers before they believe you. This is the trouble with plenty of education, but a lack of something that is often just as important, that of "common sense"!
Gonna include the source? Sounds like those silly metallurgists and engineers need to learn some stuff? As I understand what you're saying, you have a single personal experience, and your "common sense" is based off an internet post? The guy is claiming that header pipes need to "breathe?" Rapid cooling is much worse for metal. The physics simply doesn't match what this guy claims. "Almost molten??" Not even close. Let's also not confuse the conditions of a NASCAR 500 mile race engine and a DD miata header aren't very comparable. Apples and watermelons.
I'm not saying that header wrap is a perfect solution, or that it doesn't have any negative impact on the life of a cheap header, but anyone suggesting that header wrap will kill your header leading to frequent replacement is pure bullshit. If TDR is taking the position that header wrap will damage a good header on a street/track Miata when properly installed, I'm gonna ask for more facts than what has been posted so far. If you're just saying you don't like header wrap, that's an opinion you're entitled to.
There's plenty of pro-wrap information online as well. In my case, I've got an ugly old JR header that was on the car when I bought it, wrapping it will hopefully reduce IAT's, and only make it look better. If the wrap causes an issue, (which I highly doubt) it's no skin off my back. Paying to get it coated is out of the question.
C
Stop using science. Let's all just make shit up and sell shit products and claim to be experts.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
I'll take option #2. I am not speaking for anyone but myself. Please don't take anything I say as "it's coming from TDR" unless it is on a TDR website or account. That would be like me saying all your beliefs and everything you say are that of the school district in which you work. I give advice, like anyone else, based off my experiences and knowledge. I will be the first to tell you I don't know everything about Miatas but I do know a lot. Very few things in this world are black and white beside penguins and pandas. No one claim suits every application as you stated with the apples and watermelons comment. Still, the fact that there is controversy should give anyone pause to consider header wrap as a solution. In comparison, ceramic coating and even the TDR heat shield have nothing but positive comments from everything I've heard. If people understand and accept the risks of using header wrap well then bully to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
BTW, I am also not trying to push product on here. I get no commission. If I suggest something to anyone, it's because I believe it may help them. No ulterior motives on anything I tell people regarding their Miatas or anything else.
Just wanted to clarify that.
Fair enough. :)
Header wrap almost killed me.
I used to have an experimental airplane (a Velocity). This airplane was a canard design with a pusher propeller and updraft cooling of the air cooled engine, which meant the cooling air went past the exhaust header prior to going through the cylinder fins. Wanting to increase the efficiency of the air cooling, I put header wrap on the headers.
Aircraft was hangered in Houston (pretty high humidity). About 6 months later, I was cruising along at about 1500 feet on a beautiful morning. It was smooth. Aircraft was running great and flying fast. One of those really nice moments.
All of a sudden . . . BANG! followed by a huge vibration. I looked around for a field and all I could see were pine trees (that's the crop in Houston). I got really lucky and barely deadsticked into 6R3 (Cleveland, TX). What had happened is that a section of the exhaust had corroded/cracked, broken off and gone through the propeller, taking about half of one of the propeller blades with it. Thank goodness it was a wooden propeller so it didn't have the inertia of a metal propeller. That would have ripped the engine off the plane.
I made a number of changes after that:
1. Put on new headers and had them ceramic coated.
2. In single-engine aircraft, I always fly much higher. In fact, I created a glide-range depiction display which is patented and sold commercially.
3. Eventually, I sold the Velocity. I avoid aircraft with pusher propellers and tend to avoid single-engine aircraft too (fly a Baron most of the time now).
4. I always grab hold of the exhaust pipe (after checking for heat) and give it a good shake on preflight.
5. I've never, ever used header wrap on anything I own again. Fool me once . . . .
And that's all I have to say about that.
Just curious, how long was the wrap on the plane's header?
Not very long. Aircraft headers tend to be short and simple. Kind of like this:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...cityehaust.php
Mild steel?
The one that broke was mild steel. The replacement that I had ceramic coated was a stainless, but I can't remember the composition. This happened about 15 years ago. I was younger then and thought I was smart. Now I'm older and know I'm dumb.
That's all the reason I need. ::Bleh::Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball
Use header wrap and you will DIE!!!!! ::Drive2::
So you used silicone spray before applying the wrap and on the wrap as it says is required especially for mild steel to prevent accelerated corrosion?Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball
Great logic... Like saying "I almost died when I didn't torque my wheels and the wheels fell off... So if you use lug nuts you will die"Quote:
Originally Posted by black roadster
No if you use wheels you will die. Nader logic....Quote:
Originally Posted by slowchildmiata
For those that don't know this is a VelocityQuote:
Originally Posted by hornetball
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...s/velwrgcf.jpg
Experimental Type Cert.
A special airworthiness certificate in the experimental category is issued to operate an aircraft that does not have a type certificate or does not conform to its type certificate and is in a condition for safe operation. Additionally, this certificate is issued to operate a primary category kit-built aircraft that was assembled without the supervision and quality control of the production certificate holder.
I have seen some scary shit done to homebuilts, that would never be signed off on a standard type cert.