http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...-Nov%201-3.pdf
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On the first page it states that all changes are for 1/1/2016. Am I correct in assuming that was a typo and my 370z is going from CS to BS starting January 2015?
No, those are proposed changes, which would take effect in 2016. The other changes under the 12-month rule are effective in 2015. Your car is reclassed as of 2015.
Quote:
Unless noted otherwise the effective date for all new rule,
class, and listing change proposals herein is 1/1/2016.
Quote:
Recommended Items for 2015
The following subjects will be referred to the Board of Directors for approval.
Do they issue new pax index numbers each year? Looks like the historical difference between an AS & BS car has always been around .002. If the only difference between a 370z coupe and a Nismo is .002 I'll trade in my 370z and get a Nismo. A Nismo enjoys more HP, Stiffer springs, Lower center of gravity, front and rear dampers, aero package ... etc. You'd be a fool to drive a coupe if for only .002 you can use a Nismo.
You'd also be a fool to spend $10k for 0.002 penalty. That's well within driver noise. What it should tell you is that the NISMO package is not notable in autocross, and/or there are so few drivers running them that the performance potential is not fully explored. Notice that the same has turned out to be true with the Laguna Seca Mustang, relative to the regular Boss. Not every upgrade translates to autox. Just look at the MSM; tons more power, but not really faster at autox.
Yes, PAX is revised every year.
SCCA uses PAX but it is not controlled by the SCCA. It is done by one person and he comes up with the numbers through event analyses from around the country, and a heavy dose of what he thinks they should be. If he thinks that STS should be faster than STX then it is no matter what the numbers say. I just used STS and STX as an example not trying to make any point about STS and STX PAX numbers.
Looks like Rick Ruth revises PAX around Thanksgiving each year:
http://www.autox4u.com/resources/pax-index-2/
I think the Nismo's lack of notability has more to do with the 370z being so under indexed. If you index the coupe & a Nismo equally, or almost equal. I would think people would choose the Nismo over the coupe. That being said. Now that the 370z is classed more appropriately I doubt either will be a car of choice. You'd be better served getting a Focus ST or a Hyundai Genesis if you are looking for ringers. If you plan to stay with a 370z I still think you'd be better equipped if you get the Nismo package. If I stay in the used car market. The real difference in price is only $3k to 4k. And that could be negated by haggling and having gotten the original 370z for a steal of a price.
I guess. Both are very heavy cars for the tire they can run. Seems like some have figured out how to do effective setup to make them fast in ST trim, and they were competitive in Stock when R-comps were still an option, but I've never found them to have enough of the handling/weight/balance formula I prefer in autox. Scott S and others have obviously had different outcomes.
Don't think the Genesis is anywhere close to a ringer, though it is a good all-around autox car. The FoST is something to be feared in its current classing, but don't be surprised if it eventually gets moved to DS.
The 370Zs biggest hindrance in Street class is the lack of a real diff. All the power in the world is useless if you can't put it down to the ground.
Ask Scott how much faster his car got when he out a real diff in it... Something you can do in ST classes.
Who the f*** is this Austin hippie asshat chiming in? :punchout:
The 370z was never invited to the STU party. It's for 350z only.Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
Pre-FoST, yeah. Not anymore though. Look how bad I got dickstomped at Nationals for reference. I'd replace that with a GTi since obviously its a more capable car in the right hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by BatoLoco13
And Mike, I agree that eventually it will get moved...but that will be at least 2-3 years down the line. I'm not so sure I'll be around in Gay Street™ by that point.
Write a letter and request it be classed in STU. Cant hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by BatoLoco13
I've sent 3 petitions to the SCCA board and all fell on deaf ears. I'm pretty sure they didn't understand the math to back up my requests. You know that Voodoo Math I like to use.
I would love to take advantage of the STU car changes. I've given some of the STU boys a run for their money in other clubs where you do not have to overcome a 3 heat difference. I think I could catch some of them with the appropriate ST changes. Even this last SCCA event I don't think I did too badly against them. Considering I had the 1st heat compared to their 4th. You think I could petition the local SCCA board to let me run in STU next year?
Yes, you can definitely request a local classing modification. SCCA rules specifically encourage local chapters to adjust classing and rules to best suit the needs of membership.
I'll write another petition to the Nat'l SCCA. I'm sure they are just eager to hear from me again :D ... meanwhile I will wait till early December to see what the new pax index numbers are for each class. Thanks for keeping the convo real :clap:
Nice to see the 08-14 TT moving out of D-Street. Will be interesting to see how that class shakes out.
D-Street is going to be the WRX spec class. I don't think the MiniS can keep up and there aren't any other cars of interest in there. But who knows, maybe the Eagle Talon will be a major sleeper.
The FoST should be there...but "the SCCA doesn't want to bury the FoST in DS". Even though it has raw timed DS all over the place at national events with only a little over a years worth of development.
Give it time, the 12 month rule isn't expired quite yet, I don't think.
There unmolested Talons around??? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by epv
I bought a house from a guy with a sweet unmolested Eagle Talon... in 1994.
Let's go with something more obtainable like an Integra Type R that has original motor, unmolested & never stolen....
Okay I don't get why they are moving the 370z to B Street. Below are the results of the top car finishes at Nationals this year. Yes the 370z would have taken first place in BS. But so would have the MX-5. The RX 8 would have finished in 2nd. Both BS & CS are well balanced with 3 models in each group fighting it out. Shouldn't you just put all 6 cars in the same class? And why is the index difference between BS & CS .010 (.831 vs .821). However AS & BS is only .002 (.833 vs .831). When clearly the gap between AS & BS is over a second.
Has the SCCA always been this convoluted?
Street Category 2005 Porsche GT3 124.398 2006 Lotus Elise 124.460 A Street 2007 Corvette Z 124.218 2003 Corvette Z 124.527 2004 Corvette Z 124.699 2008 Honda s2000 CR 125.279 B Street 2004 Chevrolet Corvette 125.899 2006 Honda S2000 126.713 2007 Mazda MX5 MSR 126.767 C Street 2012 Nissan 370Z 125.321 2009 Mazda MX-5 125.634 2004 Mazda RX-8 126.707
1) You are trying to compare times of cars run at different times on different days. That's not going to yield meaningful data.
2)The PAX index and classing changes are based on much more than just Nationals. Regional and Tour/ProSolo data is also considered when determining trends and performance potential.
3)You are attempting to introduce logic to SCCA rules. Stop being silly.
I think it’s more that it was not a good fit in CS as far as size and power. I think of CS as being a class for lower power, smaller cars and the 370 really didn’t fit.
As far as PAX, don’t look to deep, it’s pretty easy to find things that make no sense.
If you stay in street i.e. stock classes expect to be moved around. Logic will not always apply.