Where to get turbo in dallas / ft worth?

[SirHustlerEsq]

OK, come see me if you want Plug-And-Play. I can tune a car with the new Powercard Pro setup in a bout 3 runs down the street. Simple is Good!

Gary

yeah...but can it pour black smoke on over-run...lol. I can hopefully have a safe NA road tune in a few days of data logging to and from work. We talked yesterday about tuning off the narrow band, and I can't get the resolution I need from the stock sensor, so I'm going to go ahead and install the lc-1 this weekend.

[VFR750]

Factory engineers spend hundreds if not thousands of hours getting the factory "tune" that starts and run anywhere, anytime no matter what... hot, cold or anywhere inbetween. Why do people think they can duplicate that with a modified engine, FI, etc? In a few hours yet...
Expiring minds want to know...........

[SirHustlerEsq]

Factory engineers spend hundreds if not thousands of hours getting the factory "tune" that starts and run anywhere, anytime no matter what... hot, cold or anywhere inbetween. Why do people think they can duplicate that with a modified engine, FI, etc? In a few hours yet...
Expiring minds want to know...........

How do we know they spend "thousands of hours?" I bet the spend a couple days on an engine dyno at the most considering a car company has the most sophisticated tuning equipment in the world. Aside from GM's PWM (crazy acceleration lawsuits) based idle control fiasco of the 80's, I hear most ECM's use a similar algorithm for all functions. Constants are identical for the most part. IAT, CLT, EGO correction, and PWM all have the same physical properties on planet earth. 1* change in IAT creates the same change in PW for just about any EFI system. I've seen numerous examples on a vr6, 1.8t, 4g63, and 2jzgte motors start with a solid base map and have a complete tune in +/-5 hours that make safe power and pass inspections on stand alone engine management.

Have you ever seen a datalog of a stock miata? Some are running as fat as 12.0:1 at 100kpa according to MS logging an WB. According to a local MSM owner, the stock ecm is running pig rich at 10.5:1 or worse. That's not any safer than say 12.0, and probably washing rings.

I took a "safe" base map which runs 13.0 at 80-100kpa, shift timing back 5* above 80kpa, and its making a boat load more torque from 3000-5000 running 93 RON. I went out to my car at 6am this morning, shortened PW, adjusted fixed map duration, and now it cranks at 40* almost immediately. It took about 10 minutes and I've never done this before.

[VFR750]

How do we know they spend "thousands of hours?" I bet the spend a couple days on an engine dyno at the most considering a car company has the most sophisticated tuning equipment in the world. Aside from GM's PWM (crazy acceleration lawsuits) based idle control fiasco of the 80's, I hear most ECM's use a similar algorithm for all functions. Constants are identical for the most part. IAT, CLT, EGO correction, and PWM all have the same physical properties on planet earth. 1* change in IAT creates the same change in PW for just about any EFI system. I've seen numerous examples on a vr6, 1.8t, 4g63, and 2jzgte motors start with a solid base map and have a complete tune in +/-5 hours that make safe power and pass inspections on stand alone engine management.

Have you ever seen a datalog of a stock miata? Some are running as fat as 12.0:1 at 100kpa according to MS logging an WB. According to a local MSM owner, the stock ecm is running pig rich at 10.5:1 or worse. That's not any safer than say 12.0, and probably washing rings.

I took a "safe" base map which runs 13.0 at 80-100kpa, shift timing back 5* above 80kpa, and its making a boat load more torque from 3000-5000 running 93 RON. I went out to my car at 6am this morning, shortened PW, adjusted fixed map duration, and now it cranks at 40* almost immediately. It took about 10 minutes and I've never done this before.

If it was half as easy as you seem to think why does EVERYBODY have all of the tuning issues they do? Put a probe up the tail pipe of any OE car that is running properly and you aren't going to find any running 12.0 to one and washing rings.....if you really believe that you are very out of touch with current emission regulations. Again, how you think you can duplicate the factory engineers work in your driveway at 6am with a few key strokes is at best kind of hopefull, but have fun...............

[SirHustlerEsq]

If it was half as easy as you seem to think why does EVERYBODY have all of the tuning issues they do? Put a probe up the tail pipe of any OE car that is running properly and you aren't going to find any running 12.0 to one and washing rings.....if you really believe that you are very out of touch with current emission regulations. Again, how you think you can duplicate the factory engineers work in your driveway at 6am with a few key strokes is at best kind of hopefull, but have fun...............

So you're saying I'm wrong, and the stock ecm is not running 12.0:1 on my 1.6 and fatter than 11:0 on msm's? Tuning that fat isn't going to make for less NOx or CO2, 14.7 will, and emission testing isn't based on full load, high rpm pulls. Its based on idle and cruise. We can plug in my factory computer, power the stand alone computer and datalog the wideband and compare if you like. Maybe you should come out to lewisville, drive my car down the street, then look at the datalog and tell me the car is slower and burns less clean than it did before.

If I had a chassis dyno like the car manufacturers do, I'd have the car tuned at 9/10ths the second day. Tuning stand alone is not easy. If you really know what you're doing, and do your homework to educate yourself on the multitude of tuning parameters, then getting the car started is the hardest part. Then, run a conservative spark map, and flip on autotune for the fuel table and you're 80% there. Add a few basic "rule of thumb" map based enrichments and the car is ready to drive just as well as the factory tune. Getting the last 5-10% of the fine tuning is the magic, and can only be done on a dyno. I had a solid base map and tweeked the fuel table, shift the spark table -3* since I haven't been to a dyno yet, and still working on my idle.

[VFR750]

So you're saying I'm wrong, and the stock ecm is not running 12.0:1 on my 1.6 and fatter than 11:0 on msm's? Tuning that fat isn't going to make for less NOx or CO2, 14.7 will, and emission testing isn't based on full load, high rpm pulls. Its based on idle and cruise. We can plug in my factory computer, power the stand alone computer and datalog the wideband and compare if you like. Maybe you should come out to lewisville, drive my car down the street, then look at the datalog and tell me the car is slower and burns less clean than it did before.

If I had a chassis dyno like the car manufacturers do, I'd have the car tuned at 9/10ths the second day. Tuning stand alone is not easy. If you really know what you're doing, and do your homework to educate yourself on the multitude of tuning parameters, then getting the car started is the hardest part. Then, run a conservative spark map, and flip on autotune for the fuel table and you're 80% there. Add a few basic "rule of thumb" map based enrichments and the car is ready to drive just as well as the factory tune. Getting the last 5-10% of the fine tuning is the magic, and can only be done on a dyno. I had a solid base map and tweeked the fuel table, shift the spark table -3* since I haven't been to a dyno yet, and still working on my idle.

Let me just say you are correct on some of the things you are saying but I am not going to take the time to educate you on emission standards, how vehicles are driven on an EPA test loop, why vehicles today get 20, 30, 40% better fuel mileage than that did just 20 years ago, (hint, they are running much leaner), why certain engines are no longer manufactured (hint, poor combustion efficiency), etc.
Sounds like you should go into business 'tuning' for everone, since 9 out of 10 people I have ever run into that are running something other that OE injection "just need to do some more tuning", and you appear to really have a handle on it..........
With your abilities and knowledge the OE's are really missing out on having you on there staff...............

[SirHustlerEsq]

Let me just say you are correct on some of the things you are saying but I am not going to take the time to educate you on emission standards, how vehicles are driven on an EPA test loop, why vehicles today get 20, 30, 40% better fuel mileage than that did just 20 years ago, (hint, they are running much leaner), why certain engines are no longer manufactured (hint, poor combustion efficiency), etc.
Sounds like you should go into business 'tuning' for everone, since 9 out of 10 people I have ever run into that are running something other that OE injection "just need to do some more tuning", and you appear to really have a handle on it..........
With your abilities and knowledge the OE's are really missing out on having you on there staff...............

So let me get this straight...its impossible to tune stand alone engine management because someone you know complained about it? I'll tell 2 locals and a handfull of respected forum members to take their lc-1 and lm-1 out and calibrate them.

Its retarded that you're going to sit here and tell me that I can't look at an datalogs and see pig rich AFR's. Something must be wrong with my engine management because I drove it Wednesday night for 30 miles, and it ran perfectly, without any hickups. I'll make sure and call Guinness in march when the car passes emissions since its never been done before.

[VFR750]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this........had to go out of town on business. Anyway let me see if I have this correct:
1. By your own admission the OE's have the most sophisticated tuning equipment in the world, yet they produce cars running pig rich that are probably washing rings. You can take a data logger, an aftermarket injection system and in a few keystrokes you have it running better than the factory. Makes sense to me.............
2. In my previous posts when I mentioned emission testing I am not talking about our local test. Our local micky mouse emission test is no challenge. The challenge is to pass what the OE's have to pass to be able to sell cars in the US. Lets lock your car in a test cell and run an EPA emission compliance test on it and see how good a job your generic algorithm and your driveway tuning is.........The fact that the OE's can produce cars with power and emission levels that were dreamed of just 15 or 20 years ago ought to give you a clue that combining the two ain't easy. Making power is, trying to do it to EPA test standards is a little harder, but no doubt you would have a handle on it in a day or two............
3. In none mof my previous post have I said what you guys are trying to do is impossible, its just people have been trying to do it for 20 years....It is much easier now than when I installed my first Haltech 20 years ago....If you are going with a mega motor, high boost situation then you have no choice. Low boost applications just do not need the extra hassle. Forced induction is a big enough headache without the extra hassles of tuning the injection from ground zero.
4. Last, since you just bought a kit from Corky you really should give him a call and clue him in on his position concerning factory fuel injection tuning, http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages...cts_Xede2.html As I have known Corky for 30 years I know how much he would appreciate being enlightened from all your years of wisdom and experience. I will keep a watch on his web site to see when the retraction of his position occurs.
5. Sorry for all the sarcasm but then I am retarded.............

[SirHustlerEsq]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this........had to go out of town on business. Anyway let me see if I have this correct:
1. By your own admission the OE's have the most sophisticated tuning equipment in the world, yet they produce cars running pig rich that are probably washing rings. You can take a data logger, an aftermarket injection system and in a few keystrokes you have it running better than the factory. Makes sense to me.............
2. In my previous posts when I mentioned emission testing I am not talking about our local test. Our local micky mouse emission test is no challenge. The challenge is to pass what the OE's have to pass to be able to sell cars in the US. Lets lock your car in a test cell and run an EPA emission compliance test on it and see how good a job your generic algorithm and your driveway tuning is.........The fact that the OE's can produce cars with power and emission levels that were dreamed of just 15 or 20 years ago ought to give you a clue that combining the two ain't easy. Making power is, trying to do it to EPA test standards is a little harder, but no doubt you would have a handle on it in a day or two............
3. In none mof my previous post have I said what you guys are trying to do is impossible, its just people have been trying to do it for 20 years....It is much easier now than when I installed my first Haltech 20 years ago....If you are going with a mega motor, high boost situation then you have no choice. Low boost applications just do not need the extra hassle. Forced induction is a big enough headache without the extra hassles of tuning the injection from ground zero.
4. Last, since you just bought a kit from Corky you really should give him a call and clue him in on his position concerning factory fuel injection tuning, http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages...cts_Xede2.html As I have known Corky for 30 years I know how much he would appreciate being enlightened from all your years of wisdom and experience. I will keep a watch on his web site to see when the retraction of his position occurs.
5. Sorry for all the sarcasm but then I am retarded.............

so exactly what is your point?

Yes, my car is making more power all over the rpm range than it did from the factory, and runs 13.0:1 at full throttle over 80kPa, when it previously ran 11.8 according to my LC-1. I never claimed I could pass an EPA air test, the car will pass the state inspection just fine when I get a cat on it. I'm pretty sure 14.7 is a cleaner burn that 12:1.

Some MegaSquirt 1.6's have gone from 92whp to 115whp with tuning. I think that's worth the hassle. People are getting 35+whp or so on the greddy kit with stand alone too at 8psi.

Apparently we disagree about something that doesn't even matter, so I'm done.