Salary Negotiating Rules?

[CosmosMpower]

I've been given another offer for a job I like but it would be a slight paycut (7%) from what I make now. My current job is pretty secure so I'd like to make a counter offer which I've never had to do before.

Are there any general rules or percentages that are generally accepted as normal? Is 10% more than their initial offer too much to ask? I'd like them to at least match what I make now and maybe a tiny cost of living increase.

Any advice is much appreciated.

[Titus]

No real rules... They likely have a pay range they are authorized to offer you and you likely will never know what that range is. If you are willing to walk away if the offer isn't as good or better than what you are making now, I would simply reply that you are making X now and are not willing to leave your current job unless the new job is offering you more than what you make now. One of three things will happen. 1) they will come back with a new offer a few percentage points higher than what you make now, 2) The make a new offer higher than the original but still less than your current job (if this happens, it is likely that this second offer is at the top of the range they are authorized to offer), or 3) they tell you the offer is what it is.

[TurboDuane]

Man, I wish I could help you. I've worked for 4 companies in the last 15 years. Of those, I've been fired from two, (one of those laid me off, then re-hired me, then fired me), I'm currently working for the last one of the four, and worked for my own company for 10 of those years. So basicly, I'm far more successfull at getting fired than climbing a career ladder. Sorry I can't help.

[CosmosMpower]

Man, I wish I could help you. I've worked for 4 companies in the last 15 years. Of those, I've been fired from two, (one of those laid me off, then re-hired me, then fired me), I'm currently working for the last one of the four, and worked for my own company for 10 of those years. So basicly, I'm far more successfull at getting fired than climbing a career ladder. Sorry I can't help.

A new NC, turbo NA and 06 Accord...doesn't sound like you're doing too bad. I think they are testing to waters to see if they can get me on board with a low-ball offer. The offer I'm hearing about is a few grand less than the initial salary range that the recruiter told me about. I think I am going to counter with a 10% increase over what they offer which would put me even with what I make now and about a 3% cost of living increase. Anyone else with experience in negotiating or worked in HR let me know.

[Titus]

I should add that I once was hiring for an entry level PC Tech where I interviewed 8 recent tech school graduates. I was given a salary range of $25-35k, but was asked to try and keep it under 30k. I offered the best candidate $27k. He took 2 days to get back to us and then told us he wanted $32k. I could have gone to 32, and he might have have been worth it, but it seemed brash to wait 2 days and then ask for nearly 20% over the offer. I told him to pound sand, and made the $27k offer to the #2 candidate. He happily accepted, and was managing an NT domain and supporting 6 NT servers for us within 3 years and making more than twice his initial salary.

[TurboDuane]

Haha, maybe so, but you don't see BMW's, Corvettes, Caddies or Lotus' in my stable (allways looking up) despite degrees and many certs. I've done OK, but career growth in the corporate world, has been difficult for me to master.

However, don't make a counter offer you aren't willing to live with, because once you put your number out there, you can't go up...only down.

[altiain]

If you're happy and secure in your current job, then I wouldn't hesitate to ask for more than 3% over what you're making now. After all, what's 3%? That's less than the current rate of inflation.

Personally, I enjoy what I do and I've got a good future with my current company. It would take a lot more than a 3% pay increase to convince me to jump ship for the unknown.

If you don't like what you currently do, then that's a different story. But if you've already got some security, why not ask for a lot more (within reason)? The worst thing that can happen is that they say no, and you stay where you currently are.

[TurboDuane]

Hey Titus,

Did you say you work for Wells? What division are you in?

My son works as an underwriter in the Auto dept for Capitol One. However they are about to lay-off 20% of thier staff in the Auto dept. He's got over 3 years of Auto Finance experiance. Are you guys doing any hiring?

TD.

[Titus]

I'm at BofA. Anything we have would be here. The only thing in auto finance I see is in Greensboro, NC.

[CosmosMpower]

All good points guys. I wouldn't say that I highly dislike my job but there are some factors that have really been getting on my nerves lately.

1. My manager is the negative/micro managing/unreasonably critical type and it's going to be tough to go up anywhere without manager support.

2. The bonus/variable compensation is based on individual performance, however the economy of the particular area has a much larger impact on territory performance than I could ever sell to move my sales numbers closer to goal.

3. Path of advancement is pretty much stuck in sales in Dallas, have to move for a wider variety of opportunity.

This new place seems a lot more laid back, slightly better benefits/vacation and it's a growing company which would have many more chances to move up and have my ideas heard/implemented. I've never done this and I do like the new job opportunity so I'm not trying to be unreasonable. I am however sure that it's not good enough to take a paycut. I'm pretty sure I know the upper level of the range on the position but the recruiter could be blowing smoke so I don't want to be too aggressive.

[CosmosMpower]

I should add that I once was hiring for an entry level PC Tech where I interviewed 8 recent tech school graduates. I was given a salary range of $25-35k, but was asked to try and keep it under 30k. I offered the best candidate $27k. He took 2 days to get back to us and then told us he wanted $32k. I could have gone to 32, and he might have have been worth it, but it seemed brash to wait 2 days and then ask for nearly 20% over the offer. I told him to pound sand, and made the $27k offer to the #2 candidate. He happily accepted, and was managing an NT domain and supporting 6 NT servers for us within 3 years and making more than twice his initial salary.

Are you saying he waited too long to counter offer or he asked for too much or both?

[TurboDuane]

Are you saying he waited too long to counter offer or he asked for too much or both?

I think he was saying f-u applicant. haha

[SixAce]

Couple of options here. I've been in both positions (applying/hiring) lots of times):

These are the points you should consider (I'm sure you have). Do you really, really want the job? Does it offer more "possibility" or likelyhood of greater advancement (and higher compensation) than your current position? Do you see some potential with the new firm that does not exist with your current?

What makes you want to leave your current position? Pay?, stress?, environment?, workload? scheduling? Obviously, with their first offer, pay is a concern, but what about other factors? There is more to work than just compensation. Freedom, happiness, flexibility, blah, blah, blah.

Compare benefits, 401, leave, medical/vision/disability, etc Compare the whole package.

If you still want the job, take the lowball offer (one step back for potentially two steps forward).

Or, sincerely thank them for their time and offer, and explain that your compensation understandings of the position were incorrect, and even though you both agree that you are the best candidate, hence the offer, you will be unable to accept their offer. If, at that point, they ask you what your understanding was, be honest and upfront. If it was a range, state the range and where you expected to fall into the range considering your experience and skillset.

Or, explain the above, and suggest that they start you at their offer, and incerase you to what you have in mind after a successfull probationary peroid or say, 90 days.

I would not recommend saying anything along the lines of "I had $xxx,xxx.xx in mind". i may turn them off completely, or you could lowball yourself.

Pay is good. But not everything. If I recall correctly, in the list of top ten reasons people leave their jobs, pay falls in around 6th or 7th. (strangley, working for me seems to be number 1, but I digress...)

I have no idea what you do, or what your goals are. Only you do. You might have a minimum of 3-5- and 10 year goals. Changing jobs can be a healthy process. Changing careers is harder, but oftentimes even more healthier. Love your work and you cannot fail. And vice-versa.

Hope this does not come off as preachy, cause it's not. Delveloping coaching and helping people on our staff grow and advance is part of my job, and a big part of why I love my job.

Best of luck. Hope you get what you need. Just remember, everything happens for a reason, and when one door closes, another one always opens.

SA

[Titus]

Are you saying he waited too long to counter offer or he asked for too much or both?

A little of both. When you are hiring for a job that you need filled ASAP, 2 days wait was 2 days more of lost productivity. If he had presented the counter quickly, I think I would have called him up to talk to him about it and see if we could find some middle ground. As it was, after 24 hours, I had assumed he was going to decline and had began to review the applicants again to decide who was number 2. By the time he responded, I had an offer sheet prepared for the #2 candidate. Rather than waisting more time negotiating with someone who may never work out, I sent out the offer to the other guy.

[SixAce]

I should add that I once was hiring for an entry level PC Tech where I interviewed 8 recent tech school graduates. I was given a salary range of $25-35k, but was asked to try and keep it under 30k. I offered the best candidate $27k. He took 2 days to get back to us and then told us he wanted $32k. I could have gone to 32, and he might have have been worth it, but it seemed brash to wait 2 days and then ask for nearly 20% over the offer. I told him to pound sand, and made the $27k offer to the #2 candidate. He happily accepted, and was managing an NT domain and supporting 6 NT servers for us within 3 years and making more than twice his initial salary.

Wow, like 8 posts while I was writing my novel! All good stuff and helpfull. I totally agree with Titus on this one. great call.
SA

[Titus]

be honest and upfront.

Agreed. I want to hire someone I know will be honest with me. Start on the right foot.

I would not recommend saying anything along the lines of "I had $xxx,xxx.xx in mind". i may turn them off completely, or you could lowball yourself.

+1

[SixAce]

If you're happy and secure in your current job, then I wouldn't hesitate to ask for more than 3% over what you're making now. After all, what's 3%? That's less than the current rate of inflation.

Personally, I enjoy what I do and I've got a good future with my current company. It would take a lot more than a 3% pay increase to convince me to jump ship for the unknown.

If you don't like what you currently do, then that's a different story. But if you've already got some security, why not ask for a lot more (within reason)? The worst thing that can happen is that they say no, and you stay where you currently are.

+1 More great advice.
SA

[CosmosMpower]

Couple of options here. I've been in both positions (applying/hiring) lots of times):

These are the points you should consider (I'm sure you have). Do you really, really want the job? Does it offer more "possibility" or likelyhood of greater advancement (and higher compensation) than your current position? Do you see some potential with the new firm that does not exist with your current?

What makes you want to leave your current position? Pay?, stress?, environment?, workload? scheduling? Obviously, with their first offer, pay is a concern, but what about other factors? There is more to work than just compensation. Freedom, happiness, flexibility, blah, blah, blah.

Compare benefits, 401, leave, medical/vision/disability, etc Compare the whole package.

If you still want the job, take the lowball offer (one step back for potentially two steps forward).

Or, sincerely thank them for their time and offer, and explain that your compensation understandings of the position were incorrect, and even though you both agree that you are the best candidate, hence the offer, you will be unable to accept their offer. If, at that point, they ask you what your understanding was, be honest and upfront. If it was a range, state the range and where you expected to fall into the range considering your experience and skillset.

Or, explain the above, and suggest that they start you at their offer, and incerase you to what you have in mind after a successfull probationary peroid or say, 90 days.

I would not recommend saying anything along the lines of "I had $xxx,xxx.xx in mind". i may turn them off completely, or you could lowball yourself.

Pay is good. But not everything. If I recall correctly, in the list of top ten reasons people leave their jobs, pay falls in around 6th or 7th. (strangley, working for me seems to be number 1, but I digress...)

I have no idea what you do, or what your goals are. Only you do. You might have a minimum of 3-5- and 10 year goals. Changing jobs can be a healthy process. Changing careers is harder, but oftentimes even more healthier. Love your work and you cannot fail. And vice-versa.

Hope this does not come off as preachy, cause it's not. Delveloping coaching and helping people on our staff grow and advance is part of my job, and a big part of why I love my job.

Best of luck. Hope you get what you need. Just remember, everything happens for a reason, and when one door closes, another one always opens.

SA

Thanks for all your help, it's great to hear first hand experience from both sides of the fence.

1. I would say that immediately, yes the new position has more possibility for advancement. I currently work at FedEx and while it is a very large and stable company it has it's disadvantages. Most of the non sales positions are at corporate in Memphis and I'm not willing to make that move. The new company seems much more laid back and flexible which makes it a better place to work in my opinion.

2. The economy affects sales goal and therefore sales pressure. Times are hard right now and managers have really gone into micro-managing mode which makes everyone uncomfortable. So pressure, stress, the bonus structure is really messed up and rewards the people that happened to luck into a territory that has a strong economy but don't work hard.

3. The position is a lateral move in account management but in different industries, I enjoy talking to people and problem solving either way.

4. Benefits are up and down for either company. FedEx has better medical, standby fly anywhere for hardly anything etc. The other company has about 2 extra weeks in vacation in the form of paid banking holidays.

Overall I would confidently leave a secure position at a big name corporation for the possibility of a better place to work and advance if I could do so without making less money. I will take your advice and say that my compensation understandings were incorrect based on the range of and that I believe I fall in the middle rather than the bottom (what they are offering me now). I will also do all of this in a timely manner, I expect the written letter tomorrow, I just had the recruiter call and tell me a verbal offer that was communicated to her.

[CosmosMpower]

I ended up putting in a counter offer for 120% of current base salary/ 105% of total current compensation. If they take it, it ensures my bonuses that I currently make are secure and wrapped into my base pay. I also have an opportnity to make a 8% annual bonus on top of whatever the base is which would put me at 13% total increase or roughly 3 pay bumps at my current job.

[TurboDuane]

Good Luck!