Who knows Hondas?? Clutch problems

[Jiggerachi]

2003 Honda Element, FWD 5spd. It's got the same 2.4l 4cyl as the Accord, and I believe shares the transmission, linkage, and most of it's engine parts with the RSX and Civic SI.

Anyway, leaving a restaurant tonight in downtown, can't shift into reverse or any other gear...son of a....

Check the clutch fluid and it's obviously low, there's not an auto parts store within 20miles so I decide to limp it home. Good thing I got used to clutchless shifting with all my miata clutch issues. at stoplights, turn key off, put in first, crank engine, after it's going, rev to just the right RPM and drop into the next gear. Probably not the best on the transmission, but cheaper than a tow truck.

Got it home and looking around, I can't see any leaks anywhere in the hydraulic lines at this point. Find the slave cyl and start bleeding it. Bled it completely through a few times, no luck. Seems like the clutch is only disengaging 50 - 75%. On the highway if I gas it and hit the clutch the engine will rev somewhat freely. , but will not shift normally. Car will idle in gear with clutch in and handbrake on but very rough, obviously clutch spinning on the pressure plate, let the clutch out and lunges and sputters, so the clutch is working somewhat, just not disengaging completely.

I'm thinking Master or slave cyl. What has me puzzled is pumping up the pedal, no difference, after I bled it, no difference. It doesn't seem to have air in the lines anymore at least, and If there was a leak somewhere I can't see wouldn't a pressure loss mean a dead pedal? Can slaves or master cylinders go only half bad, and do it without leaking?

I'm thinking tomorrow im going to grab an o'reiley special slave cyl since that seems to be the cheapest thing to try, but I have to get this fixed this weekend, i've only got the Miata as backup, not good for the family.

I don't mind working on the Miata, but i'm terrified of trying to work on a FWD honda. Any tips / suggestions here? Thanks in advance.

[Nexus Flux]

You are correct, the Element shares its K24 engine with many other K series Honda/Acura cars. For a complete list of cars with K series engine check this out.

Check the master cylinder, there is a triangular plate, that can develop a leak. It can be replaced with a Civic master cylinder, that does not have the extra valve assembly inside and would be less prone to developing the leak.
4fc5faceddf9a89b81.jpgYour 03 Element. It's part number 7. Honda part number 46920-S7A-A03

The Civic master cylinder that I'm talking about is here
71b82b5ee5221a5303&#56.jpg 05 Civic. Part number 6. Honda part number 46920-S5A-G04

It might be a pain to get to, since on the RSX it's high on the firewall and tucked into a corner.

[Jiggerachi]

I picked up a slave cyl from o'reileys just in case and a clutch master cyl from an 05 civic. The only places that had them locally was vatozone...oh well they both have lifetime warrantys.

They only had one for an 05 civic 1.7. I assume its the same part across the board right? Do you know the vatozome pn for the civic master cyl that fits?

[Nexus Flux]

Looking at the Vatozone website, the master cylinder for a 2005 Honda Civic DX 1.7L MFI SOHC 4cyl is part number LMC410. Remember to adjust the bellcrank that attaches to the pedal lever, to set pedal height.

[Jiggerachi]

Yep that's the one I got. It looks very different from what's on there, but the mounts are all the same. This the part that fits though right?

Ok I see it now,was posting from my cell phone, couldn't open up the parts diagram

That big triangular thing seems to be what's different. The one I bought for the Civic looks like the part in the diagram you posted. Just a simple tube, sans triangle.

I'll start pulling it, we'll see how it goes.

[Jiggerachi]

Just finished up with the master cylinder, exactly the same problem...dammit.


Now on to the slave cylinder...

[Jiggerachi]

Ahhh shit, just replaced the slave cylinder...exactly the same. Anyone have any ideas to go from here?? I'm about to take it to a mechanic, im worried this is going to get expensive.

Edit: Talked to a family friend who is a mechanic, he basically told me it was either the pressure plate or a broken engagement fork. He said it's the exception to the rule, but sometimes this is how clutches go. So I'm looking at a full clutch job Well at 120k I guess it was prime time for the clutch to go.

No mechanics are open on teh weekend so I guess I'll take it somewhere monday.

[boisking]

I was gonna say you needed a clutch replacement. Probably a pressure plate failure.

[Titus]

Many moons ago, I had clutch problems similar to what you describe in an '87 Acura Integra. It turned out that one of the springs on the clutch plate had broken and was sitting in there sideways. IIRC, this made it seem like the clutch was always partially engaged.

[Jiggerachi]

Ok so I think I need to source a clutch kit myself, the mechanic is quoting me over $400 just for the disc and pressure plate, then plus labor and everything. About a grand out the door. I'm calling around still, that's insane.

Anyone have a decent and cheap mechanic they can reccommend?

Also, I need a place local that can get me a good deal on just an OEM style clutch, cheap but good quality. What are all the civic / RSX guys runnign? Any help here would be great. I need it local as this is the family car, i'm having to borrow my friend's VW to get the wife and kid around.

[CosmosMpower]

You can probably find an OEM replacement Exedy for a couple hundred bucks. Labor is going to cost 400+ no question so you can probably get it to 600-700 bucks if you shop around.

[Jiggerachi]

ANy idea where to get Exedy clutch kits locally?? I can find them cheap on Ebay, but i'd rather buy locally for time.

Ebay price is around $175 w/ free shipping BTW

Exedy PN is HCK1004 for this auction.

[sammm]

Exedy's website should have a dealer list.

[POS Racing]

Exedy's website should have a dealer list.

http://www.exedyusa.com/oe/dealers

[Jiggerachi]

Thanks guys. Picked up an Exedy from these guys. If you need one in a pinch they stock them. I think the Exedy OE replacement kit for Miata's was something cheap like $150.

Express Texas / All Import Auto
11277 E. Northwest Hwy
Dallas TX 75238
Phone: 214-349-3300
Fax: 214-343-6742

Anyway, just limped it to a mechanic this morning. He vaccum checked the hydraulics and pretty much confirmed it was a pressure plate failure. He'll have it ready it tomorrow afternoon.

[cam76034]

So you finally got the AC problem fixed? What was it?

[Jiggerachi]

^Nope, never got around to playing with it. Now that I listen to it a little more I think it really is just a lose or glazed belt. Still blows nice and cold though. Been too busy changing diapers to do much of anything miata related lately.

Anyway, brought the Element home yesterday, shifts smooth like butter. The guy found that just like Titus said, some peice of metal or spring had broken off and wedged under the pressure plate preventing it from disengaging. Clutch disk still ok looking, but was pretty worn down, it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway. My main complaint about the Element is I think the chassis is too heavy and bulky and too high cener of gravity for it's FWD platform. Maybe in automatic it works fine, but with a 5spd, it can get pretty clunky working the clutch in heavy traffic. That coupled with mostly low end torque and power, it doesn't surprise me that the clutch went out.

New clutch, clutch master cyl, and new slave cyl. Total = $800
Thanks for all your help guys.