Turbo or Supercharger

[Yeller90]

I have read a ton of suff this past summer and it all just makes me wonder from an overall reliability and drivability scale which is better for a miata, a turbo kit or supercharger? Oh, say on a 90 1.6L

[miataspeedracer]

You will read convincing arguments for both....I suggest you bum a drive in cars with both.

[offsprg01]

our you could just build a turbo - supercharged rig and have the best of both worlds :)

back in reality though you could make a case for either. turbo's make good top end power and the way i've always thought of super chargers is they make a car drive like it has two more cylinders. at least thats the way all the supercharge cars i've driven feel

[jeff_man]

sell the 1.6, get a 97 or a 99 then pick start reading the diy over on miataturbo.net for cheap boost.

[juxt3r]

Either option can be great for both reliability and drivability. If you've never pieced together such a setup before, go with a kit from a reliable vendor. They will generally have ALL the bits you need, right down to some form of fuel and spark control, hose clamps and the like.

You will find a lot of folks in the metro area favour the supercharger route. Certainly having an excellent and local vendor for the blower kits helps a lot, especially when it comes to support.
You can source prefabbed turbo setups for your car from both southern TX and CO. Both have great phone support and friendly personnel to help with any questions you might have before and after the sale, be those questions complex or mundane.

If you want to go DIY for turbo, check out ARTech. He makes impressive 1.6 components and is also local. For DIY supercharger, you can look at Rotrex through either Kraftwerks or 949Racing. They don't have an off-the-shelf kit available for the 1.6 yet, but there is a kit specifically for the DIY folks out there. I have yet to see a DIY roots blower system for the 1.6, but Titus definitely did a bangup job piecing together his M45 setup from several different sources with impressive results.

As already suggested, take a ride with both types of setup and see what you like best.

[jeepinbanditrider]

As stated above a case can be made for either system. I prefer superchargers myself due to instant boost as soon as you press the pedal and the bypass valve closes. The turbo route has more potential to make more power down the road. You run out of steam with the Supercharger systems especially on the 1.6 running an M45. IIRC 180 200 is about what you can get from the M45 and still keep reliability and that's pushing it.

You are more than welcome to drive mine I see you are in North Richland Hills which isn't that far from me I'm in Saginaw. I don't have it with me this week it's in Mineral Wells and I'm on the motorcycle but I should have it this week coming up starting on Tuesday :)

I have the M45 Supercharger kit with power card fuel mangement and TDR air to air intercooler. Defintally get an intercooler no matter which way you go turbo or supercharger as compressing that air gets it HOT. Also when going with the supercharger kit (I assume it's the same for the turbos also) and intercooler you are adding a lot of air volume to the intake tract that the stock ECU can't compensate for. Since the power card is only managing fuel underboost you get idle problems. I've been messing with mine for a while and can't figure it out. The only option I can find to fix it is to go to something like a megasquirt fueling option so you can adjust the idle fueling and such. Which may be your best option anyway.

[slowchildmiata]

Also when going with the supercharger kit (I assume it's the same for the turbos also) and intercooler you are adding a lot of air volume to the intake tract that the stock ECU can't compensate for. Since the power card is only managing fuel underboost you get idle problems. I've been messing with mine for a while and can't figure it out. The only option I can find to fix it is to go to something like a megasquirt fueling option so you can adjust the idle fueling and such. Which may be your best option anyway.

It is a throttled volume issue. The way most s/c kits work is by moving the t/b to the intake side of the s/c... This creates the issue. Adding an a/a intercooler just makes it worse. This is NOT true for turbo systems.

I run a w/a intercooler and don't have idle issues.

You could switch to megasquirt and mask the issue... But you can't get rid of it.

[jeepinbanditrider]

I've been hearing of adding a second throttle body which is a route I may go to I'm just not 100 percent on how to get the throttle valves to open the same at all times.

[CarCar]

I've been hearing of adding a second throttle body which is a route I may go to I'm just not 100 percent on how to get the throttle valves to open the same at all times.

Hope this helps. I have been considering doing this for some time.
http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=58646

[slowchildmiata]

That fixes the idle issues, but has its own problems. Most people can/do overlook them.

[BFPW]

You are more than welcome to drive mine I see you are in North Richland Hills which isn't that far from me I'm in Saginaw. I don't have it with me this week it's in Mineral Wells and I'm on the motorcycle but I should have it this week coming up starting on Tuesday :)

[jeepinbanditrider]

Alright I've got it with me now

[SirHustlerEsq]

I firmly believe the turbo is more fun and probably faster in terms of dollars per output. You can bolt a supercharger on and go race for years or you can buy a turbo and follow each and every specific detail I tell you (which you won't do) after you get in line for a custom turbo build because very few if any off-the-shelf kits cut the mustard for serious track action. Its been a long road...and very rewarding after last weekend. I've definitely taken the difficult route, but knowing what I know now I would do the same thing again.

[mk2tmr2]

You can bolt a supercharger on and go race for years or you can buy a turbo...very few if any off-the-shelf kits cut the mustard for serious track action.

Most casual enthusiasts only need to know that much in order to make their decision.

It really comes down to one thing: Do you want a set-it-and-forget-it boost solution or do you want something that will keep you busy fine tuning a lot over time until you get it right? Each direction has it's positive sides. If you are not a tinkerer, not familiar with tuning and troubleshooting, or not in the mood for a temperamental setup, you want a supercharger. If you get an itch because you haven't picked up a wrench in a couple weeks, or if you are never satisfied because you know it can be better, or if you love to find new and creative ways to eek out a little more power or reliability, then you want a turbo.

If you don't care about the amount of work or fiddling and just want the most power per dollar, nobody will argue against turbo being your best bet.

[cwisenheimer]

Most casual enthusiasts only need to know that much in order to make their decision.

It really comes down to one thing: Do you want a set-it-and-forget-it boost solution or do you want something that will keep you busy fine tuning a lot over time until you get it right? Each direction has it's positive sides. If you are not a tinkerer, not familiar with tuning and troubleshooting, or not in the mood for a temperamental setup, you want a supercharger. If you get an itch because you haven't picked up a wrench in a couple weeks, or if you are never satisfied because you know it can be better, or if you love to find new and creative ways to eek out a little more power or reliability, then you want a turbo.

If you don't care about the amount of work or fiddling and just want the most power per dollar, nobody will argue against turbo being your best bet.

I humbly beg to differ. I had a turbo on two different Miatas and I did not have to fiddle with it to keep in running at all. A DIY solution *might* end up that way if you didn't have a clue when you put it together. In the past, supers were less prone to fiddling because there wasn't much you could do to turn up the wick from a basic set-up. Now, you can add an intercooler, ecu, etc. because they're available and people have blazed a trail for you. You can also fiddle with a turbo system if you choose to. Neither one *requires* fiddling though. It all comes down to your goals and your personal preferences and it's darn hard to have a valid opinion on either unless you've got some experience with both kinds of systems. Owners of either one typically love them.

Bottom line, go get rides or drives in multiple cars with both kinds of systems. Talk to owners and vendors to educate yourself and make your own decision. Either way you go, you'll be happy you did and you'll likely kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

[Rob®]

I humbly beg to differ. I had a turbo on two different Miatas and I did not have to fiddle with it to keep in running at all. A DIY solution *might* end up that way if you didn't have a clue when you put it together.

To humbly disagree with you, I had to CONSTANTLY tinker with my FM2 setup. Not just to get it running smoothly, I had to "tinker" with it to get it to run at all. Pretty much every time I drove the car on a spirited run, I had to get towed home. I got so frustrated with it, that I put the car in my garage and never looked at it for 2 years. Literally. It pissed me off so much, that I actually forgot I still had the car...and that's when I was less than an hour from Watkins Glenn.

I do have to say that it made me realize that even the "best" off the shelf kit was a complete joke, so it only pushed me to make my own stuff better and better. I have yet to have a failure on track with my own stuff (knock on wood), but the off the shelf stuff would fail on the way to the grocery store. So yeah, mr brg hit the nail on the head with needing to go custom if you're going to be serious about tracking a turbo Miata.

[Buck Reynolds]

I have owned turbo and sc Miatas. Unfortunately I don't know much on tuning etc. I just recently had my ecu reflashed so my MSM drives much better. I dream of a NC and installing a Cosworth with the ECU reflashed. However after five Miatas in 12 years.... I think my wife has said enough is enough.

Buck

[Yeller90]

With the right amount of money anything is possible I guess :)

[Sharpie]

My dad had Bill's original turbo on his car with a LINK for just under 100k miles. The turbo had been on Bill's car for 30k before dad put all those miles on it. The turbo gave up in 08'. He now has the new FM 2 and just drove from Albuquerque to Hallett, drove Sat. on the track and drove home with no issues.

I've had my FMII on my car since 05', bought used, and I've had to rebuild the turbo but it has been reliable hardware for 30k miles, so I'm sorry you didn't have the best experience with the FM product, but there are many satisified customers out there.

I'm not serious about tracking my car, but I've managed to hit the track at least once a year and drive home 5 hours too.

[Rob®]

I'm sorry you didn't have the best experience with the FM product, but there are many satisified customers out there.

Oh I know. I also know more people that were unsatisfied with their FM turbos than people that liked them. But yes, I agree there are many many people out there that have had little or no issues. My main point was that just because it's a "name brand" doesn't always mean it's good.

And I still have the LINK in my car. lol Figures the only thing remaining from the FM kit is the part that gives most people trouble. Mine has actually been trouble-free since 2003. Even holds rock solid boost, which I hear is near impossible. Never once got the knock sensor to work for more than 5 minutes though. I gave up on that one years ago