Rear Ended!

[goofygrin]

A friend at work said he took the money and fixed it himself and made quite a bit repairing his own car. So I figure it would be legal to get it fixed by someone else if they offered less then what USAA is willing to spend.

While common, this is on the verge of insurance fraud and be careful here.

Though honestly.... all I want is for my car to look like it did when I bought it... is it really that far-fetched to believe USAA will make my car look like that without me having to worry about it?

We're a bunch of bitter old guys... grain of salt, etc. Be wary, make sure everything smells ok, etc. I'd not be surprised if it's totaled and they offer you 5-6k.

[MiataProtege]

While common, this is on the verge of insurance fraud and be careful here.


We're a bunch of bitter old guys... grain of salt, etc. Be wary, make sure everything smells ok, etc. I'd not be surprised if it's totaled and they offer you 5-6k.

The only thing I noticed that was bad about Caliber Collision.... it looked like a HUGE shop. That works with many many many cars daily. While I was there... there must have been 20 cars in 3 assembly line style conditions and all you could hear was impact wrenches going at it. I consider that to be a bad thing... with that much quantity going through. Other than that it looked very VERY professional. Nice water fountain out front, beautiful rock formation around the facility, interior the workers were dressed in suits and ties.

After looking around on the internet I found quite a bit of "EXCELLENT WORK!" and what not... with a very small handful of upset customers who were arguing about price and time more-so than problematic work.

Here were my 3 options from USAA affiliates by the way:
Auto caliber collision

Service king

Craigs collision

Auto caliber collision

[MiataProtege]

Also.... would the infamous Rogue be someone to take it to for an appraisal? I've been suggested taking my car to him at least 10 times now, and I need to shop around anyways!

[POS Racing]

You're either a troll for writing that or you believe in unicorns that poop rainbows and leprechauns with boogers of gold.

You sir are the greatest!

[VFR750]

It really is quite easy.....
1. if USAA does not total your car right off the bat then drop if off at the shop to wish to fix it
2. the shop of your choice will call USAA if they find any hidden damage or need anything else (depending on what they find it can total at this stage).
3. pick up your car when they call you and tell you it is done
no reason for all of the hand wringing or driving around getting 19 estimates... on a collision of any magnitude there will be a supplement for additional costs (see #2 above)

[Walsted]

... You should probably put the car on them and spend like an hour underneath the car - you might learn a few things (not meant to come across dicky...I actually mean it's a good idea).

http://www.mikewalsted.com/undercar.html shows some pictures taken underneath a Miata. You can see all four bolts used for aligning the rear end in the fourth picture.
Hope this helps

[cwisenheimer]

It's been said, but if the floor of your trunk is wrinkled, be ready for a total. Cars today are designed to crumple in a controlled fashion to absorb the energy of a crash so your body doesn't have to. The structure of the trunk floor and the main "frame" structures under the trunk absorb a lot of rear-impact energy. If they're bent, they can't just be "un-bent" and absorb the same energy next time. For the car to be repaired correctly, they have to be cut out and replaced with new metal, which is expensive and can easily lead to a total on an older Miata. I lost two that way. Note, the pieces *can* be "unbent" and the car will appear to be fixed and it will be cheaper -- it will also be less safe and if you knowingly tried to sell it that way, you would be liable for injuries to a subsequent owner, should they be rear-ended and hurt.

As for the value of the car, look at KBB or Edmunds for ballpark values. The value of your loan, the purchase price, what you'd sell it for, etc. are all irrelevant. The insurance company will tell you what they consider to be the value of your car, both for deciding whether it is worth repairing and for the value they'll pay you if they total it. This value WILL BE low, just expect it. You can argue, you can show your own market research, you can even get an appraisal, but the insurance companies make the rules and they generally win. When it comes down to it, what recourse do you really have? Not much. You can haggle with the adjuster, but the adjuster will only have authority to go to a certain amount and then it's over their head to their supervisor. Most likely, the adjuster will be a nice, honest, reasonable business person with a job to do. Treat them with respect and honesty and you're likely to get the best result. If they want to total it and give you less than you feel is reasonable, ask the adjuster what their limit is. Then ask how much the adjuster is allowed to give you for injuries. (Note that I didn't say to lie and claim to actually be injured.) If you can live with the limit plus the amount they are authorized to give you for injuries, tell them you'll take that much. If you can't live with that, let the rest of us know how you got more.

Your best outcome will likely be to get it fixed and back to you in good condition. You were happy with it before the accident, so you'll be happy to be back in the same situation. If you are allowed to get it fixed, make sure the body shop does the job to your satisfaction and don't accept it back until it's correct. Caliber on 7th in FW did work for me several times (not lately) and I was always pleased with their work. Also, while it's being painted, if there is any other paintwork you want done, you won't find a cheaper time to do it, since some of the prep will already be done in order to fix the rear. Good luck.

[MiataProtege]

It's been said, but if the floor of your trunk is wrinkled, be ready for a total. Cars today are designed to crumple in a controlled fashion to absorb the energy of a crash so your body doesn't have to. The structure of the trunk floor and the main "frame" structures under the trunk absorb a lot of rear-impact energy. If they're bent, they can't just be "un-bent" and absorb the same energy next time. For the car to be repaired correctly, they have to be cut out and replaced with new metal, which is expensive and can easily lead to a total on an older Miata. I lost two that way. Note, the pieces *can* be "unbent" and the car will appear to be fixed and it will be cheaper -- it will also be less safe and if you knowingly tried to sell it that way, you would be liable for injuries to a subsequent owner, should they be rear-ended and hurt.

As for the value of the car, look at KBB or Edmunds for ballpark values. The value of your loan, the purchase price, what you'd sell it for, etc. are all irrelevant. The insurance company will tell you what they consider to be the value of your car, both for deciding whether it is worth repairing and for the value they'll pay you if they total it. This value WILL BE low, just expect it. You can argue, you can show your own market research, you can even get an appraisal, but the insurance companies make the rules and they generally win. When it comes down to it, what recourse do you really have? Not much. You can haggle with the adjuster, but the adjuster will only have authority to go to a certain amount and then it's over their head to their supervisor. Most likely, the adjuster will be a nice, honest, reasonable business person with a job to do. Treat them with respect and honesty and you're likely to get the best result. If they want to total it and give you less than you feel is reasonable, ask the adjuster what their limit is. Then ask how much the adjuster is allowed to give you for injuries. (Note that I didn't say to lie and claim to actually be injured.) If you can live with the limit plus the amount they are authorized to give you for injuries, tell them you'll take that much. If you can't live with that, let the rest of us know how you got more.

Your best outcome will likely be to get it fixed and back to you in good condition. You were happy with it before the accident, so you'll be happy to be back in the same situation. If you are allowed to get it fixed, make sure the body shop does the job to your satisfaction and don't accept it back until it's correct. Caliber on 7th in FW did work for me several times (not lately) and I was always pleased with their work. Also, while it's being painted, if there is any other paintwork you want done, you won't find a cheaper time to do it, since some of the prep will already be done in order to fix the rear. Good luck.

Thanks for your thoughts. Now I more fully understand why there is a "ripple" in my car. I suppose we will find out tomorrow how bad this ripple is. Glad to see you had a good experience with Caliber, even though it's a different one. Assuming they don't total it, I will definitely not accept the car back until it's immaculate.

The paintwork you suggested would be cheaper in this situation.... what if the only part that needs to be repainted is under the Mazda symbol on the front of the car? Would it still be cheaper to get it done now? Or are you talking about just where they are working on. Additionally the appraiser said they probably wouldn't repaint, that they would replace. Since connectors for the bumper cover are torn and the trunk is unrepairable, so they wouldn't be doing any painting.... or would they? They still have to give the new pieces the slightly worn brilliant black look since my car is 12 years old right?

I suppose I'm just beating a dead horse until I can find out more about it tomorrow.

[cwisenheimer]

You'll have to ask Caliber about what might be cheaper to do now. I had half of my car painted by the insurance and I paid for the other half, but I didn't have to pay for paint waste or some of the basic prep/masking since insurance paid for that anyway.

If you're getting any new sheetmetal, it will have to be painted. The insurance company won't pay to repaint the whole car, just the parts that are replaced. Caliber will "paint match" and blend the color from the new to the existing. Black is easier to match than, say, silver or red so it will likely look pretty good. If you want a complete, undetectable match, yes you'll have to pay extra to get the whole thing painted. Talk with the body shop about how close they can match and how much it's worth to you to do something different or not.

[Rob®]

He took the keys and popped the trunk after looking underneath, looked around the inner walls and found a ripple in the cars frame and found the back end where the trunk falls down into, that area is dipped inward. He said it will definitely cost 2-3 thousand, but could potentially be totaled.

Now I know I told you to look in the trunk for just that. Damn kids.

[jeepinbanditrider]

I called USAA a while back (don't remember the year of your car right off) to have my liability upgraded to full coverage. The agent on the other end suggested against it as the car (mine's a 91 with 188ishk miles on it) was only worth about 800 dollars. Basically any collision at that point becomes a total and I'd spend more in a year or two on insurance than the car is worth.

[Rob®]

^ This. But if you want to cover mods (or the car in general), look into an agreed upon value plan from a specialty insurer. Stated value coverage is generally NOT the same thing, just FYI. Be careful on that one. Agreed upon value is actually supposed to be cheaper than normal insurance rates too..I keep meaning to look into it, but my car is <$600 a year to cover, so eh.

His car is a '99 I believe. BUT he has a loan on it. So he needs full coverage.

[boisking]

Having Rogue at Miata Solutions look it over is a good idea. I don't know how busy he is right now, though. While he is probably not listed as an approved repair vendor by USAA, he probably has more experience repairing "totaled" Miatas than anyone else. He can give you a list of the repairs he would do to the car, then you can compare that list to what Caliber quotes. Don't ask Rogue to inspect your car for free.

A the very least, make sure Caliber quotes for taillights, bumper, trunk lid, frame repair, and paint. I would very closely inspect the rear differential case for cracks. This makes me the millionth person to remind you how common this is in rear-end collisions for Miatas.

Inspect the differential case for cracks and breaks! Do this by putting the car on your new jack stands and using your new creeper to slide under the back of the car. Using the brightest flashlight you can find, look up at the big round-ish silver (or greasy) metal thingy (differential case) that the axles come out of in between the rear wheels. It has two big silver metal arm-thingies (mounting tabs) that are supposed to be molded as a single piece with the differential housing. The other end of each arm is bolted to the rear sub-frame. If you can grab hold of the diff case and make it wiggle/rattle very much: it is probably broken. If you can see little cracks in the aluminum on either of the two arms/tabs: it will break soon. Get your head up in there and look closely. Use a mirror to inspect any side you can't see clearly.



Now that you are 21, you should offer a 6-pack to a Miata geek in your area who can show you how to inspect this. I would do it if I weren't 4 hours away. I would recommend buying him a seasonally appropriate Oktoberfest from a microbrewery. Rogue prefers Shiner Bock, but also enjoys seasonal varieties, IIRC. Whoever it is, allow him all 6 beers. Do not take one for yourself and only offer him 5. If he is polite and gracious, he will voluntarily offer you one to enjoy while you inspect the car. Never offer a friend (or potential friend) a gift of beer valued under $7 for a 6-pack. It just makes you look cheap and insensitive. I digress.

Do not try to walk away with some sort of profit. Just make sure USAA pays to make things right, be it replacement value or repair value.

Do make sure you get a fair shake. It is your own responsibility to ensure you are treated fairly and taken seriously. It may work out that you lose a few bucks in the end. This is a risk you took by buying a car and driving on public roads. Welcome to adulthood.

The only thing I noticed that was bad about Caliber Collision.... it looked like a HUGE shop.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. With that many cars being repaired there, you can go look at the cars in the lot and decide for yourself if it looks like they do good work.

[MiataProtege]

Appraiser's estimate is $1600 with everything included, visual damage only though and it's by the first female appraiser who didn't find the ripple. So we shall see what it is with this ripple.

Taking it to the repair shop for their exact quote here in an hour. I plan on taking it to 2 other guys before having it repaired at caliber... assuming the other 2 say the same things about my car. I will also be looking at this differential.


Do I get to keep the old parts? I would assume not.

And that's right! As of the 27th I can start buying beer for people!

[MiataProtege]

Now I know I told you to look in the trunk for just that. Damn kids.

Now Rob, I did check but didn't find anything. In-fact even when this guy pointed directly at the ripple... I could barely see it. It just looks like part of the bend in the metal. I will admit however to not noticing the bend in the straight piece that the trunk lid sits on. It seems so natural as curved it didn't cross my mind. I was a fool.

[black roadster]

Sorry I added you to my ignore list a while back.

Say hi to black roadster for me will ya!

Hi POS!


I fart in your general direction. Since you're ignoring me I guess it's Silent but Deadly.

[MiataProtege]

Hi POS!


I fart in your general direction. Since you're ignoring me I guess it's Silent but Deadly.

Monty Python quotes are fantastic and very welcome in all of my threads.

[Rob®]

Now Rob, I did check but didn't find anything. In-fact even when this guy pointed directly at the ripple... I could barely see it. It just looks like part of the bend in the metal. I will admit however to not noticing the bend in the straight piece that the trunk lid sits on. It seems so natural as curved it didn't cross my mind. I was a fool.

And this is why it was said a few times to have it looked at someone that knows what they are looking at I know I'm not terribly far from you. Jeepinbanditrider has offered to swing by your place at least once that I remember. There are people near you that know more than you that are willing to help. The being able to buy alcohol now thing is a HUGE plus (and A+ to boisking for being super thorough on that). At this point there is no use having someone here look at it (besides Stevan/Rogue since he could possibly fix it for you), so this is pretty much a moot post on my part.

[MiataProtege]

And this is why it was said a few times to have it looked at someone that knows what they are looking at I know I'm not terribly far from you. Jeepinbanditrider has offered to swing by your place at least once that I remember. There are people near you that know more than you that are willing to help. The being able to buy alcohol now thing is a HUGE plus (and A+ to boisking for being super thorough on that). At this point there is no use having someone here look at it (besides Stevan/Rogue since he could possibly fix it for you), so this is pretty much a moot post on my part.

Oh yeah, I have been planning on taking it to my friend mechanic near me and to the family mechanic which I just finished up doing. Sorry that it seems like I didn't take your advice.

[MiataProtege]

A guy at Caliber Collision by the name of Adam (or David not sure) short older guy greeted me and was fairly rude to me.

Here is what Caliber Collision quoted me:

Recycled bumper assembly - $375
Nameplate "Miata" - $181.25
Recycled Combo lamp assembly - $181.25
"Recond LT" Combo lamp assembly - $171.11
Trunk Lid recycled part assembly with hinges - $337.50
Clear Coat - $18.27
Emblem for rear body and floor - $18.27 + 2 hours of labor
Floor set up / Body Pull - 1.5 hours of labor

Subtotal: $1,116.22 + 7.4 hours of body labor + 8 hours of paint labor

8 working days to complete repairs

May find additional damages when vehicle is torn down

Totals:

$1,973.34



The appraiser said the frame could be fixed very simply and so to could the trunk lid landing latch. He assumes after pulling it apart, the styrofoam in the bumper will be broken and need to be replaced (or something to that effect) and there could be other problems as well.

I set up a repair date for October 17th and left to my mechanic friends house. He showed me the differential and we looked at a few other points of concern. I then took it to Guaranteed Auto Xpress off Cherry lane (our families mechanic) and asked them to do an inspection on mechanical damage and to point out what cosmetic problems needs to be fixed and see if it matched up with Caliber Collisions estimates. Russel (lead mechanic / owner) came out after 20 minutes of inspecting and said the car is in perfect mechanical condition, he can't say if the alignment is off but if I say it is then caliber collision is obligated to align my car and not only that it's fairly cheap to do. He said the frame problems are not as bad as the shop said they were, but it's not going to effect me negatively, the insurance company has to pay for it all.

After all was said and done they pulled my car around and asked me how I liked it (they did a pre-purchase inspection and they know me fairly well as my father goes there with all of his vehicles) and I asked him how much I owed him... and he said nothing! I offered $20 just for his time and he refused to accept a payment.

I recommend this shop to anyone for anything. Russel is well informed on Miatas and they always are out to make you satisfied. Next time you have a problem take it to him and I vouch 100 percent for him that he will give you the best prices and fix the problem the first time. I simply love this mechanic.