Equipe Rapide Challenge Cup #8 October 16th, 2011

[ratt_finkel]

MM,

At the bus lot or pennington or even lone star it is heat cycles that make the rubber harder over time not tire wear. At MW the wear on the tires is visible and decidedly uneven. You can see it from run to run. Race tires are even more prone to this than DOT R's When I ran DOT R's last year at MW the wear was very manageable. MW pretty much ruins a set of race tires in one event, maybe two at most. That's why running older tires is more cost effective. It probably costs me a second or more but on an 80-90 second course I can try to find a way to make it up. Or I could drive like Andy and not go fast enough to spin

Actually, LSP is pretty hard on tires too. Any time you have exposed aggregate it chews up tires. Mix that with loose gravel and dirt and you have an even more pronounced effect.
PMS actually is pretty easy on tires. But that is course dependent. The last event there we saw very noticeable wear on the front tires. Primarily due to the slow tight sections which required lots of steering input followed by high slip angles. I'd say I lost about 20+ runs on those front tires, when in reality it was 12 very short runs. This is actually one of the reasons Madarash left the event. He knew the tire wear he would see.

[CosmosMpower]

Actually, LSP is pretty hard on tires too. Any time you have exposed aggregate it chews up tires. Mix that with loose gravel and dirt and you have an even more pronounced effect.
PMS actually is pretty easy on tires. But that is course dependent. The last event there we saw very noticeable wear on the front tires. Primarily due to the slow tight sections which required lots of steering input followed by high slip angles. I'd say I lost about 20+ runs on those front tires, when in reality it was 12 very short runs. This is actually one of the reasons Madarash left the event. He knew the tire wear he would see.

+1 LSP sucks on tires...

[Robert]

I love guys running supper soft tires then complaining about high ware. My solution to not getting very many runs out of a set of tires is running RS’3s or Star Specs.

Still good point about not running the course through the worse parts of the lot. Jrj512 does a good job of keeping us out of it as much as possible.

[CosmosMpower]

I love guys running supper soft tires then complaining about high ware. My solution to not getting very many runs out of a set of tires is running RS’3s or Star Specs.

Still good point about not running the course through the worse parts of the lot. Jrj512 does a good job of keeping us out of it as much as possible.

Umm yeah that damage was done in 4 runs. I wouldn't call that normal "wear" either, that's a chunk that delaminated from the carcass. The replacement pair I've gotten so far has lasted me 8 runs X 6 events with hardly any wear at TMS and MW. My car can use a set of R comps up to 100 runs at MW, PMS, TMS and still have tread until they are heat cycled out and thrown away.

[TxCoyote]

I love guys running supper soft tires then complaining about high ware. My solution to not getting very many runs out of a set of tires is running RS’3s or Star Specs.

Still good point about not running the course through the worse parts of the lot. Jrj512 does a good job of keeping us out of it as much as possible.

I have little choice on my car. Mineral Wells eats tread, I have only run a couple of events at Lone Star so my sample size is small. Everywhere else is Heat cycles as the measurement point not rubber.

[Robert]

I have to call BS on that. If that tire only had 4 runs on it you may need to look at your driving style.

[Robert]

I have little choice on my car. Mineral Wells eats tread, I have only run a couple of events at Lone Star so my sample size is small. Everywhere else is Heat cycles as the measurement point not rubber.

Fair enough, It’s OK for you to complain

[TxCoyote]

Fair enough, It’s OK for you to complain

Lot of good it does. You guys could contribute to my tire fund..........

[nomadtrash]

I ran E-Prepared on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years and E-Modified on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years. I would get about 10 events on a set of tires (5 events with a co-driver). Half the events were at Mineral Wells and half were at Pennington with a few bus lot and other sites sprinkled in. I never had any issues with Mineral Wells eating the tires any faster than any other site. I did notice that there was not a lot of wear at the bus lot because there was no actual grip at the bus lot.

[CosmosMpower]

I have to call BS on that. If that tire only had 4 runs on it you may need to look at your driving style.

You can call BS all you want but the exact same replacement tire has faired much better at the other venues. I have the proof and 5 FTD's this year which is 5 more than you. I think my driving style is fine.

[nomadtrash]

After 3 events at Pennington.

[Robert]

I have the proof and 5 FTD's this year which is 5 more than you.

Of couse I am driving a B-stock car on street tires, you are driving a ASP car on race tires.

I tend to agree with nomadtrash. If we ran the same type of courses at Pennington as we do at Mineral Wells we would see simular tire ware. The ware would look a little different, Mineral Wells tends to take out small chunks where Pennington is more even.

[TxCoyote]

I ran E-Prepared on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years and E-Modified on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years. I would get about 10 events on a set of tires (5 events with a co-driver). Half the events were at Mineral Wells and half were at Pennington with a few bus lot and other sites sprinkled in. I never had any issues with Mineral Wells eating the tires any faster than any other site. I did notice that there was not a lot of wear at the bus lot because there was no actual grip at the bus lot.

I'm sure the tires were as hard as the one's I use at MW. I split mine because I choose to maximize my grip elsewhere. I can run 10events on a set but then they would have much less grip when I used them at the Bus Lot or any other venue.

I tend to agree with nomadtrash. If we ran the same type of courses at Pennington as we do at Mineral Wells we would see simular tire ware. The ware would look a little different, Mineral Wells tends to take out small chunks where Pennington is more even.

You are making our point here Robert. MW courses are 2-3x as long as Pennington, therefore 2-3 more wear per run. That's what makes them chunk and go away faster.

[OZMDD]

There are tons of good events at TMS, so people with serious tire wear concerns ought to try to run there most of the time. We all know that MW is a rough surface and has 90+ sec courses. PMS gets 30-40 sec courses on grippy concrete. LSP has been used how many times this year?

Cosmos- the FTD comment is obnoxious and completely flawed. You have FTD's because you bought them. Pax your runs and its a different story. If you want to only run with clubs that let you class your car against cars that are totally outgunned by yours, that's cool, but bragging about it is pretty silly. By that logic, I should claim that I'm outdriving all the NA drivers in Class 1/X?? C'mon man, you know better.

[TxCoyote]

There are tons of good events at TMS, so people with serious tire wear concerns ought to try to run there most of the time. We all know that MW is a rough surface and has 90+ sec courses. PMS gets 30-40 sec courses on grippy concrete. LSP has been used how many times this year?

Or run it on hard tires and know you are giving up a second or two.

[SixAce]

The NTAXS is a good warm-up for the real thing on Sunday.

The above quote, and the rest of this thread proves that without a healthy and on-going Track vs. Ax argument, the Ax crew will start feeding on each other. Just sayin..

[POS Racing]

The above quote, and the rest of this thread proves that without a healthy and on-going Track vs. Ax argument, the Ax crew will start feeding on each other. Just sayin..

[CosmosMpower]

There are tons of good events at TMS, so people with serious tire wear concerns ought to try to run there most of the time. We all know that MW is a rough surface and has 90+ sec courses. PMS gets 30-40 sec courses on grippy concrete. LSP has been used how many times this year?

Cosmos- the FTD comment is obnoxious and completely flawed. You have FTD's because you bought them. Pax your runs and its a different story. If you want to only run with clubs that let you class your car against cars that are totally outgunned by yours, that's cool, but bragging about it is pretty silly. By that logic, I should claim that I'm outdriving all the NA drivers in Class 1/X?? C'mon man, you know better.

Ok raw times don't matter let's all play in a land of made up times computed with a magical formula decided by one man that changes yearly. That makes a lot more sense.

I bought the Lotus because it's fun to drive if I wanted to buy every ftd I would be in an Atom DP super stalker or similar. If I brought my car to SCCA locally I'd be racing against....no one in my class. Plus I'd be standing around all day for 3 runs, and I just don't like autocross that much to do that anymore which is why I only run with NTAXS, LSCBMWCCA and similar format clubs.

[cone-cerned]

The above quote, and the rest of this thread proves that without a healthy and on-going Track vs. Ax argument, the Ax crew will start feeding on each other. Just sayin..

+1

[TxCoyote]

I'd have to disagree Cosmo. Your Lotus is a Factory race car with lots of development $$$ in it's chassis. A SuperStalker is not going to handle nearly as well despite a couple hundred pounds. I have a solid axle and nowhere near the F/R weight bias you have. You are a very good driver but you get FTD so often cause your car is exceptional and also costs a lot more than a Stalker. In fact you could build 2 Superstalkers for the cost of your car. The only thing better than your car is your ability to make excuses. The funny part is you make excuses for success! You have the best (or at least top 3) car, you are one of the top drivers. I'd suggest that you compete in STR with a Miata or something similar and see if you win every time in that class or get FTD. That'll prove (or not) your claims.