Reply With QuoteThey are a great way for a slow driver to spend more money in order to feel like they are part of the fast bunch.
They are a great way for a slow driver to spend more money in order to feel like they are part of the fast bunch.
Depends on the tire, are we talking A6's or RS-3's?
Originally Posted by jrj512
I was asking purely for longevity. Not looking to shave 10ths off my already slow time. I've heard heat cycled and shaved tires can actually last longer but this slow driver would like to know what the fast bunch think about that theory.
While I'm asking, would Nitto NT-01 work well for AutoX or would they not build up enough heat. Would a summer performance tire actually be more advantageous? I really liked race rubber (Had some RA-1 I just corded) for track stuff. Thus looking to replace them
I don’t have experience with the NT01, but looking at it, I don’t think there would be any benefit from shaving. I don’t know if it would benefit from heat cycling.
I would skip paying for heat cycling and just drive them around easy for 50/100 mi. at least 24 hours before I really drive them hard.
For autocross they are too soft for street class, and likely a lot slower than the Hoosier.
On tires like the R1R and Rival that heat-cycle out long before the tread is gone, then shaving is something to consider. If you shave them, you will still get the same number of quality runs (now limited to reaching the cords rather than heat cycles), but you get the benifit of less tread squirm (better response and lower heat). However, you are paying extra for the shaving.
You can get the same gains from shaving an RS-3 (less tread squirm for better response and lower heat), but you are reducing the number of runs and increasing your cost. You can get 150+ quality runs from a full-tread RS-3 and take it down to the cords. If you shave it, you only get 75 runs and minor gains from less tread squirm. I am not good enough for the squirm to matter, so I will take the cheaper costs of running full tread.
Does the extra responsiveness of less tread squirm matter much on the track, versus AX where you are constantly changing direction? I guess if you're really good, but few of us are.
That brings us back to my first response.
I know you were asking for longevity, but if you want to go faster, then learn to drive faster. You have five AX events every month, PCA time trials at Mineral Wells, and a ton of DEs.
For street tires I would recommend driving around on them for at least 10-20 minutes at a low air pressure one day before competition. This will make them last a little longer.
When it comes to shaving I wouldn't recommend it for most people. But if you are going to do it prices and quality vary widely. I buy my tires shaved from Appalachian Race Tire. They charge $10 a tire and do a great job.
I agree that you should do your own heat cycling. It is very easy to do, just find an empty area where you can swerve side to side at slow speeds, then do some slow speed donuts in a cul-de-sac in each h direction until the tires are warm across the tread. Take them home, remove from car (or jack it up) and let them cool overnight. Bam, heat cycled.
Shaving makes no sense for someone in your position. You do not compete, so the slightly faster lap times are not critical, and you are probably not going to use them enough to be concerned about heat-cycles vs cording in the lifespan. NT-01 ought to be fine as a track tire that can be street driven. I've not seen anyone serious autox on them, but they might be fine. Since they are an r-comp, there are faster choices that are less street-ab!e, and there are many street tires out there that perform as well or better in autox.
If I were in your position, I would buy Kumho XS or RS-3 to get the best performance/value/longevity combo for track driving in Texas.
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
How do I know when my Rivals are" heat-cycled out"?
You know how great the grip is when they are new? When they slip and slide at any temp on any surface at any pressure - even though there is still tread, they are 'dead'.
1995 M Edition
It's tough to gauge because it is kind of gradual. I can tell when I notice people beating me when I am usually faster than them.
I once made up three seconds when I switched from old tires to new tires at the same event. The old tires still had plenty of tread. That was back when I was running 14" Azzennis that cost $65 each. Those were the days.
JRJ is spot on; many new tires are subtly slower when they heat cycle out. I didn't notice my rivals or rs3's fall off dramatically, but I felt the car wasn't holding in places where I knew it should. Any tire that has had more than 150 competitive runs is subject to this. Some last much longer, and a few brands far less. Hoosiers are <100 run tires.
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
Buy Rivals or RS3 v2 and drive them everywhere. Don't waste your money on shaving them and heat them yourself. You have no need for anything stickier than that as you don't compete and if you did compete you would have to buy R6s or better for it to matter.
On the track Hoosier A6s are $110 a minute to run at the top of the pack.
M3 is always the answer.
I'll echo the comments of several pepole above -
For non competitive HPDE use, Rivals or RS-3s are a great choice. Streetable, durable, and they won't give up much in performance to the "second tier" DOT-legal R comps like NT01s, RA-1s, etc. I love my RS-3s... as long as it's above freezing.
For autocross, the "second tier" R comps are the absolute worst choice. Their treadwear numbers ensure you will be dumped in R compound classes with every local club, where you'll be running (uncompetitively) against Hoosiers. They also require more heat to work than extreme performance street tires, which means the first couple of runs are always throwaways, even on hot days. I tried a couple of autocrosses on R-888s when my Star Specs were dead on the RX-8 and hated them.
With regards to paying for heat cycling or shaving, I've never personally found a benefit to doing either. I've not seen a noticeable difference in longevity between heat cycling and not heat cycling, and shaving is only a benefit if you're trying to extract that last 100th of a second out of a run or lap.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
I have nothing to ad to the shaving or heat cycling issue but I have been very satisfied with my RS3's, they are far more grip than my stock suspension can really make use of and have put over 9k miles on them and will probably be able to get another 1-1.5k miles; would have been more but I waited to long to rotate and the rears are almost to the wear bars. I haven't decided fi I will go with them again or Rivals, either way it looks like Tire Rack has a monopoly on the Rivals.
My Rivals are starting to die. This is what I've noticed:
1. When first getting on track, they are staying slippery longer. It used to take one lap at MSR-C to get grip -- now it's taking up to two laps even though track temperature is warmer.
2. When I finish a session and jump out of the car to check temps/pressures, I'll usually pull my fingernail across the tire edge to see how sticky it is. When the tires were newer, that edge was really sticky, almost "gooey." There would be lots of little pebbles stuck into it. Now that the tires are hardening, not so sticky and they look cleaner because they're not picking up the pebbles as much.
Anyway, 0.02. I'm still getting decent/improving times though. But a lot of that may be driver improvement/seat time or the warmer tracks.
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