Face as big as a ham

[865]

I'm looking for some simple advice.

I've entered one autocross event, the NTAXS run that was held on 11/21. I had a blast, and I'm in love, even if Gabby did chew me out (mildly reprimanded, really) for being late for my work shift after lunch. :) (Sorry Gabby, I will not err again!) Now I want to join SCCA and enter all of the local SCCA events for 2016, C Street. Of course, I'll enter every NTAXS event too. Fun!!!

I asked on another forum about upgrading my tires from OEM Bridgestone RE-050A to something like Bridgestone RE-071R, and most (quite a few!) of the people who answered me said that a beginner should run with what tires he has; don't upgrade. Many of them said they thought it would be detrimental to me to upgrade my tires because it could interfere with learning how to drive. Wut?

The reasons they offered varied, but a popular meme was that better tires might mask bad behaviors that would (apparently) be easier to correct if practiced using inferior tires. Or something like that. Some people also kindly wanted to help save me money, bless them.

Anyway, color me skeptical. I think better tires would only help me enjoy the sport more. It's not clear to me how better tires would interfere with my learning.

But I'm asking here because I've met a number of you and I trust your opinions more. What do y'all think? Is it foolish for a beginner to upgrade his tires?

I want to have fun. I don't want to be last. I'm a novice. Big tree. Blue sea. And I have a face as big as a ham.

[sammm]

A lot of AX'ers have another set (or 2, or 3) of wheels to mount their 'race' tires on. Sticky AX tires are typically not great for street (cold, rain, etc) driving.

[jrj512]

If you learn to drive a crappy car well, then imagine what you'll do in a good car. Keep the current tires and abuse them while you learn to drive. When I started, I used up my original tires first. In fact, the old tires caused me to do more events because I wanted to use them up so badly and move on from my training wheels!

Or, ask someone fast to drive your car on the current tires and you will see that there is a lot of skill to learn before the tires matter.

[OZMDD]

Jerrett is right, but I don't see a problem with investing in tires early in the process, particularly if you plan to get a second set of wheels and use that combo strictly for autox. They will last longer and it avoids the problems/headaches from running a UHP tire all the time. (noisy, expensive if you damage one, wear quickly, poor wet/cold handling)
The argument against R-comps for a noob is that they will mask bad habits, but I don't think its the same issue with sticky street tires. If you are going to spend some $$ right out of the box, tires are the only legit place to spend it other than seat time and autox school.

The difference the tires will make is dramatic, and you'll be learning on a setup that better-matches what you'll be driving when you have more experience, so there is that. Still, if you aren't buying a second set of wheels, burn-up what's already on there rather than rushing off to the tire store.

[general default]

The Bridgestone RE-050A has a tread wear rating of 140. The Bridgestone RE-071R has a tread wear rating of 200. In theory the lower the number the sticker the tire. Street tire classes rule says you have to use 200 or higher tires even if it is OEM equipment. In 2015 the local clubs allowed the use of 140 or above tires in Street Classes. I have not heard of any local talk about continuing that allowance for 2016.

The RE-050A is a ok tire and would be good enough to start with and use up if it is allowed in 2016.

But I am not in the camp of using low performance tires for beginners just because they might mask driving errors. I am more for getting proper quality seat time with good instruction / feed back.

Driving a bad handling car just makes you either timid or compromise what you should be doing to go faster. Adapting faster than your competitor for each course / run is part of the sport. You really need to set a goal for you fastest run by the 3rd run. Tires play an important role in learning how to do that. If you have junk tires you are missing out on an important part of the skill set to run at the top of the time sheet.

[wrx74]

The schedule for 2016 is starting to come together. Check out the autocross calendar and you'll see plenty of events when the season gets started. Make the most of the tires you have and make as many events as you can. Schools are excellent learning opportunities and lots of seat time, too. You'll need new tires before you know it and we'll know which ones are THE TIRE to have by then.

And be on time after lunch!

[CosmosMpower]

Buy the tires, driving a car on crap tires is no fun. RE-05A's aren't in the same league as RE-71R's. If you are over driving even a RE-71R won't save you.

[POS Racing]

I'm with CosmosMpower if you have the $$$ buy what you want! You can always come up with other excuses other than the tires.

[Robert]

I tend to be in the buy the wheels and tires camp. You will need 2 sets, one that you can run down to no tread, and 1 set with tread for rain events and daily driving. Be on the lookout for used wheels (for street class they need to be the same width, and +/-1/4 inch offset and +/- 1 inch diameter of the OEM wheels) that you can sell for what you paid for them when you move on to another class/car.

Most RWD cars like a big front sway bar for autocross also. They are cheap and the best upgrade after driver, tires.

[nomadtrash]

Come autocross with Equipe Rapide. We won't be grumpy like Gabby and Jerrett. We will let you run whatever tires you want and heap lots of praise on your mad skills.

In all seriousness, My recommendation is that if you can afford a second set of wheels and tires then go for it. It will keep you from wearing out your street tires and it will get the ladies all hot and bothered. Street tires don't like the stress and heat that autocrossing places on them. They tend to wear quickly. You might consider using a longer lasting and cheaper tire than the Bridgestone. The Hankook RS-3, Kumho XS, Falken 615k are excellent tires that will wear slowly and be significantly cheaper than the RE71R. A driver of your experience level will not notice the performance difference.

[Steve E]

Another option is a used but plenty of life left set of re71s...

[Davidss]

You might consider using a longer lasting and cheaper tire than the Bridgestone. The Hankook RS-3, Kumho XS, Falken 615k are excellent tires that will wear slowly and be significantly cheaper than the RE71R. A driver of your experience level will not notice the performance difference.

Good advice.

[EricJ]

Or, ask someone fast to drive your car on the current tires and you will see that there is a lot of skill to learn before the tires matter.

Yup, those fast guys know how to turn tires in to smoke.

[865]

Thank you all for the great feedback, suggestions, and detailed responses. It gives me a lot to think about.

I haven't quite made up my mind yet, but based on what I've read so far, I think maybe putting some better but less expensive than RE-71R tires on a used set of 17x7s might be the ticket. I also like the idea of burning up my RE-050As, but I'm not so crazy about the idea of using autocross-slagged tires on the street.

@general default, the 2015 SCCA rules for Street class says you can use tires with a UTOQ treadwear rating less than 200 if they are the OEM ones for your car, which mine are. So I believe I'd be OK with them if I end up using them instead of buying new ones.

[CosmosMpower]

If your car is a NB you should buy slowchildmiata's 15X9 6UL's with Hankook RS3's for under 400 bucks. Then when you wear those out buy some other tires and you basically got free wheels.

[865]

I saw that for sale ad in the classifieds. But no, mine is not an NB. It's an NC. 2015 GT with 17x7 wheels (25th Anniversary Edition). I sent an message to another guy in the classified section who had a set of wheels from a 2007 NC GT, which should be the same size as mine. But he posted a couple of months ago, so I'm not holding my breath.

I also found a 2006 GT being parted out in Fort Worth. It's listed in Craig's List, and I think the 2006 GT also has the 17x7. I'm going to call the salvage company tomorrow to see if they still have the wheels. That was a couple of months ago too.

[general default]

Yes it is important to read all the rule in a section not just the first part of 13.3. There is an exception. 2015 ZO6 Corvette, Fastrack, January 2015.

...
@general default, the 2015 SCCA rules for Street class says you can use tires with a UTOQ treadwear rating less than 200 if they are the OEM ones for your car, which mine are. So I believe I'd be OK with them if I end up using them instead of buying new ones.

[CosmosMpower]

Yes it is important to read all the rule in a section not just the first part of 13.3. There is an exception. 2015 ZO6 Corvette, Fastrack, January 2015.

Guessing that applies to all cars that were delivered with Cup2 tires

[865]

I looked into prices at Tire Rack for the Hankook RS-3, the Kumho XS, and the Falken 615k that nomadtrash mentioned. In 225/45/R17, prices are:

Bridgestone RE-71R                        $159.30                    4 for $637.20
Hankook Ventus R-S3                      $131.20                    4 for $524.80
Kumho ECSTA XS                                    n/a                                                                        UTQG 180
Kumho ECSTA V720                         $133.20                   4 for $532.20
Toyo Proxes R1R                               $176.80                  4 for $707.32
Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Spec           $162.30                   4 for $649.20
Falken Azenis RT-615K                      $153.00                   4 for $612.00           (Discount Tire)

The Dunlop and Toyo are more expensive than the RE-71R. The Falken is a little less. The only ones significantly less expensive than the RE-71R are the Hankook R-S3, the Kumho ECSTA V720, both about $100 less for a set. How do they stack up against the RE-71R?

[nomadtrash]

You will not notice a difference between the tires. The RS-3 will last a long time and has good heat tolerance. I don't know about the V720 longevity or heat tolerance. It is a new tire that only a few people have tried so far. I recommend the RS-3.