SCCA #5 7/17/05

[srivendel]

WOW! If you've learned to control your car at speed during one event of three runs, you're a faster learner than I am! Ya gotta make at least another couple of events, just to show us what that MSM is capable of...

It was good to meet you srivendel -- don't be a stranger on the AX circuit!

Ha ha. That wasn't exactly what I meant, but point taken.

It was good to meet you, too.

S.

[Kestrel]

Ha ha. That wasn't exactly what I meant, but point taken.

Just ribbin ya!

[JStankus]

Not that I care to rehash the debate, but I just can't see spending all day for three runs...

This one comes down completely to course design issues. Tommy ignored car interval when designing the course, and as such it made it a very long event. In general the efficiency of the events are improving, but a large systematic issue of a course that had 50-60 second car intervals is something that can't be overcome. I did suggest truncating the loop so that rather than coming all the way back close to the start, hook back in near the corner by the traffic light. But the rewalk delay would have probably eaten up any gains.

It really isn't rocket science. The number of runs is a function of the number of drivers, the start interval, and the amount of time we have the lot.

For example with 180 drivers, a 50 second start interval would mean 3 runs each would take 7.5 hours, with a 25 second start interval those same 3 runs would take 3.75 hrs. Or you could get 6 runs in the same 7.5 hrs. To do that things have to run continuously without interuption. That is one reason we do the hot swaps of workers. Also why I try to make sure that as the last car of the previous heat goes to the line, the first car of the next heat queues in behind, even if all the workers have not reported yet. Also I have pushed to get things started earlier, but that seems to be tough to get certain folks to do.

Just a query for folks (maybe this should be a survey) Do folks prefer more runs on a shorter course, or fewer runs on a longer course? 4 runs at 40 seconds vs 3 runs at 60 seconds?

Note that a loop can be an effective course extender on a smaller lot, note Matt Lucas' course for event 2 --> 4 runs in 50 second time range. (and as I recall we got out of there pretty darn early, probably could have gotten another run in if we were confident in our efficiency)

Regards

John

[srivendel]

This opinion is free, so take it for what it's worth, but I would prefer a shorter, more technical course, and more runs. As a novice who is still learning a lot with every run, more runs is better because I have time in between to think about what happened on the last run and try to improve the next time.

S.

[Treibenschnell]

Just a query for folks (maybe this should be a survey) Do folks prefer more runs on a shorter course, or fewer runs on a longer course? 4 runs at 40 seconds vs 3 runs at 60 seconds?

My answer would be this: I run 8 times with S2K in the 80 to 90 second range... its an easy choice for me.

[Ataim]

My answer would be this: I run 8 times with S2K in the 80 to 90 second range... its an easy choice for me.

With the limited time that I have to race I have to find the bigest bang for the buck. I can only run once a month, so for me its either S2000 or ER, sorry SCCA. But I hope to run at the next Miatas at the ranch.

[Majik]

I would say four runs on a shorter course. It gives you more time to think about what you have done, and what you can improve.

[onething]

I loved the course. The only issue was the interval. I found the McDonalds Bend to be a big challenge. As fast as I've ever been at Pennington with elevation changes Not that I like the interval, but that has been enough.

4x40 sec = 160 seconds
3x60 sec = 180 seconds

I need seat time, and I'm not sure that is enough difference to matter to me.

[Majik]

I loved the course. The only issue was the interval. I found the McDonalds Bend to be a big challenge. As fast as I've ever been at Pennington with elevation changes Not that I like the interval, but that has been enough.

4x40 sec = 160 seconds
3x60 sec = 180 seconds

I need seat time, and I'm not sure that is enough difference to matter to me.

I should also say that I really enjoyed the course also. We have said enough about the lag and everything. It was really fun to go faster through the Mcdonalds turn everytime, finally going flat on the first lap of my third run.

[Kestrel]

I hear ya 3-Bean and Ataim, and I really enjoy the NTS2KOC events... they continue to be the best events in the area.

On the other hand (and I'm not taking anything away from the people who race at the NTS2KOC events), the level of competition at SCCA and ER events is really top notch. I find that this high level of competition really has pushed me to be a better/faster driver. I've learned a ton by having my hat handed to me by these top drivers -- and I'm not just talking about Miata Pilots. With the PAX indexing, I can actually (if not entirely accurately) judge my performance against all the drivers at an event.

Look, I can't tell you that standing around a parking lot all day for 3 to 4 runs is worth your time -- only you can decide that. But what I can say is that the competition is very intense at SCCA and ER events, and that competition brings out the best in me. I have a ton of fun at the NTS2KOC events. I learn a ton at the the SCCA and ER events. And now that the SCCA is running the events so smoothly, the pain of that learning is not quiet so bad!

YMMV

[onething]

But what I can say is that the competition is very intense at SCCA and ER events, and that competition brings out the best in me.

Can we get a poll here

[Kestrel]

ouch!

I didn't say it was good enough, it's just the best I can do...

[sammm]

what I can say is that the competition is very intense at SCCA and ER events

Days like yesterday are truly a beating, but Kestrel's above statement is why I keep coming back. The upside is days like yesterday are the exception this year instead of the rule.

If the powers-that-be would have listened to common freakin' sense concering the event and the final course layout, yesterday wouldn't have been the ass-whipping it was.

[blackzx3_13]

well said Kestrel

[altiain]

I agree with Kestrel - the level of competition at ER or SCCA events is the main draw for me. If it were all about seat time, I'd be running S2k & PCA events exclusively.

That said, you'll notice I haven't made many Texas Region events this season. Last season really burned me out on SCCA, so I go to ER for my competition kicks. The fact that I get 6 runs instead of 3 or 4, and that I can win some of my entry fee back make ER an easy choice. I fill out the rest of my schedule with a mix of S2k and PCA events, both of which offer a lot more seat time (and a more laid back environment) than SCCA events.

[Treibenschnell]

I agree with Kestrel

Wow... Weatherman Fred just told us that it began snowing in Hades!

[Kestrel]

Wow... Weatherman Fred just told us that it began snowing in Hades!

[JStankus]

Thanks to all who have made comments. I know a portion of y'all, only do things like the S2K events due to number of runs (which with a driver cap of 55 is something you can do) and that is fine (it is a free country afterall). Most of the board is dedicated to making the events a better experience with more runs. That is why my focus is on efficiency of the events. And as always suggestions for improvements are always welcome. We need to work on making sure we have a shorter start interval on course designs. Personally, I also think we need to work on starting earlier as well.

I also want to say that the corner workers did a good job under the conditions, most of the corner worker problems were later in the day when everyone was suffering a bit from the heat and the long shifts due to the course design. Yes we can improve, but there were no disasterous delays.

Regards

John

[Clovis]

I know a portion of y'all, only do things like the S2K events due to number of runs (which with a driver cap of 55 is something you can do) and that is fine (it is a free country afterall).

John - We (S2000) put on just as many runs than SCCA and still finish up by 3-3:30 with a 1 hour lunch break. I bring this up only because I've heard this thrown around a few times now.

S2000 Event
55 Entries x 8 Runs = 440 Runs + 40 Fun Runs = 480 Total Runs

SCCA July 17 Event
167 Entries x 3 Runs = 501 Total Runs

The difference there is 20 runs, 4 more hours, and numerous delays. That's why so many of us have been to very few SCCA events this year. Good people, good competition, just too much time for too little.

[JStankus]

John - We (S2000) put on just as many runs than SCCA and still finish up by 3-3:30 with a 1 hour lunch break. I bring this up only because I've heard this thrown around a few times now.

S2000 Event
55 Entries x 8 Runs = 440 Runs + 40 Fun Runs = 480 Total Runs

SCCA July 17 Event
167 Entries x 3 Runs = 501 Total Runs

The difference there is 20 runs, 4 more hours, and numerous delays. That's why so many of us have been to very few SCCA events this year. Good people, good competition, just too much time for too little.

Clovis,
No arguments here comparing to this past event. The issue with the July 17th event was the start interval, that is clear.
SCCA events this year
Event 1 122x4 runs = 488 runs
Event 2 150 x 4 runs = 600 runs (I think we were done3-4 ish)
Event 3 154 x 4 runs = 616 runs
Event 4 115 x 5 runs = 575 runs (I think we were done 3-3:30ish)
Event 5 167 x 3 runs = 501 runs

Most of the events other than the last event we were able to get out fairly early. Personally I think if we start on time, and have a course that has a reasonably short start interval we should be able to do on the order of 800 runs in a day. I would at least like to target 5 runs. I will be pushing for better start intervals and on time start of event at the board meetings.

I will take issue with the numerous delays comment. At Sunday's event the only real delay was the FSAE car that lost a wheel and that was cleared in a couple of minutes. Yes there were some reruns, but I attribute that to course design and its consequences.

It is a free market and people will go to the events they think they will get the best combination of seat time, competition and enjoyment. I respect folks decisions as to participating or not participating in SCCA events. My focus is to improve the quality of SCCA events. I think we must be doing ok, last year the diatribes lasted all week after an event

Regards

John