Let's talk fuel efficient commuter cars
Sigh... I face a ~100-mile round trip daily commute. With gas prices continuing to skyrocket (and I may be a pessimist, but I don't think we'll ever see sub $2/gallon prices again), and the "family car" needs now covered by the CRV, my wife and I have been discussing the possibility of trading her '00 Accord in on a fuel efficient commuter for my daily slog.
Here's my requirements:
- Must get 30+mpg freeway (the higher, the better).
- Must be comfortable (I'll be spending 2+ hours a day during the week in it).
- Lower mileage, less than 4-5 year old examples need to be available for less than $12k. I commute about 25,000 miles a year currently, so I'm not looking to buy some high-mileage beater that I'll have to spend all my free time repairing.
- Must seat 4 (2-doors are okay).
- High reliability is a must. I've been spoilt on Toyotas, Hondas, and the Miata. If it's going to spend three or four weeks a year in the dealership for warranty work, fuggedaboudit.
Size isn't important. Transmisison options aren't important (I'm currently commuting in the auto CRV, but I've found alternate routes to work that minimize gridlock time, so my natural preference will be for a manual). I'd like it to be vaguely entertaining, but a comfortable ride and interior is more important than how will it will carve a decreasing radius turn. Basically, I'm looking for an inoffensive, low-maintenance, high-efficiency appliance to get me to work and back.
Any ideas? I was thinking '03+ Proteges, late-model Civics, or maybe a Mini Cooper (although the ones under my price cap will probably not meet my mileage and reliability criteria).
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
What does the Accord do as far as gas Mileage, wouldn't it be the better long haul commuter car??
I know I parked the SUV and have been driving the POS since 30mpg is better than 12mpg!
I know right about now I’d like to Have Tailchaser's VW Jetta with the TDI!
The Honda Insight was selling cheap here in TX last time I was looking at cars. A while back I saw one with only 20k miles going for $10k, looked brand new.
The owners I've spoken to have avg'd 80 mpg on the highway.
Thomas
V-to-the-Dub
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...=en&cardist=30
Go get this so we can call you a tree huggin' hippie!
Thomas
V-to-the-Dub
My Dad just recently picked up a Mazda3 I for the same reason. He commutes 120 miles round trip 3 times a week on this road. He is averaging 30.2 mpg with the automatic going over the mountain. The only problem is price... the I with 5spd and AC has and MSRP with destination of about 15k. They were discounting them about $1k a few months ago but not now thanks to demand for cars with good gas mileage.
Proteges are great cars, but with the 2.0 they get only 30MPG. The 1.6 wasnt ranked better than that however. They can be had pretty cheap though.
For gas mileage without going to electric a 2001 Civic DX coupe got 39 MPG and its retail is plenty low enough to fit your needs (6-8k). Not a looker but can be plenty fun.
Good Stuff Here -> http://www.fueleconomy.gov/
Our Honda is getting great gas milage... even for such an old vehicle. Is yours the V6 Accord?
Ironically, the Accord only gets marginally better mileage than the CRV - the CRV averages about 23mpg, the Accord only about 25-26mpg. 3Bean, it's only the 4 banger, but it is a 2.2L, 150hp engine struggling to move 3200lbs of car around - the newer Accord unfortunately weigh a lot more than the early '90s versions.Originally Posted by POS Racing
I'd like a small, diesel car as well... but I just don't think I could trust a VW, especially a used one that I'd be racking up 25k miles a year on. I think the long term ownership costs of a 30mpg Civic would beat a 45mpg VW, once you factor in reliability, maintenance, and out-of-warranty repair costs.
Last edited by altiain; 09-02-2005 at 09:27 AM.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
If your Accord is still a decent car, one thing to consider is how much gas can you buy (even at these prices...I think the bubble will burst eventually) vs. a new car payment. How far out is the pay off or where you break even again.
Our 2000 Toyota Corolla got close to 40 mpg on the highway at 75 mph.* No lie. It was a VE stripper model with A/C as the only option. It was light, efficient, quick, comfy, and totally anonymous to police. In-town mileage varied, but was usually right around 30 mpg. That was a great car...
S.
* One time between Santa Fe and Amarillo, we saw 42 mpg. That was the highest we ever got. Usually it was 36-39.
What he said...
I think it's a bit too early to sell the farm just yet...
That's why I listed $12k as the price ceiling - I should be able to get anywhere from $9500-11,000 on trading the Accord in, and I'd be looking to trade the Accord "straight up" (more or less) for a new commuter. In addition, the Accord is 6 years old and has 70k miles, so I'd be willing to spend a little extra to end up with something newer and with lower mileage, in addition to being more efficient.
I agree that the bubble will burst eventually - I don't expect gas to stay above $3/gallon forever, But I also don't expect it to ever dip under $2/gallon again. I also expect to be making this commute until next summer at the earliest, and potentially longer than that, if we can't find/build the house we want in that timeframe. Before this week's spike in prices I was spending over $200/month just on fuel for the commuter - add in tolls and maintenance, and that's a lot of money to get back and forth to work. Take the current lunacy with gas prices into effect, and I wouldn't be suprise to see my aggregate commuting costs hit $100/week, unless I find a more efficient alternative.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Yeah, I still kick myself for trading in our '95 Civic LX on the Accord. That car averaged over 30mpg no matter how hard I beat on it as a delivery vehicle, routinely got more than 35mpg on the freeway, and was the most reliable car I've ever owned. It was also pretty invisible to police.Our 2000 Toyota Corolla got close to 40 mpg on the highway at 75 mph.* No lie. It was a VE stripper model with A/C as the only option. It was light, efficient, quick, comfy, and totally anonymous to police. In-town mileage varied, but was usually right around 30 mpg. That was a great car...
S.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
FWIW, Iain, I feel your pain. :) Though I don't commute, Audra does, and we kinda went through this same sort of thing this week.
Assuming that you get about 24 mpg now (my Mom's '03 Accord V6 gets 26 pretty effectively, but let's knock a little off for a conservative estimate), you drive approximately 2000 miles/mo (500/wk, 4 wk/mo -- to make it easy), and gas is $3.50/gal:
That means that if you achieve your goal of spending only about $1k on the upgrade, you've got to get at least 34 MPG to get your $1k back in a year. And that's really a best case scenario. At $2,500 you've got to get at least 37 MPG just to pay off in two years. Once you get beyond $2,500 you have to get damn near unavailable mileage in order to get your money back in 5 years. And probably most importantly, this doesn't include the cost of financing (if you're not going to buy outright) and depreciation -- which will be pretty significant with you driving 24k miles per year!
FWIW, when I ran my own numbers it became clear that if I was just looking to actually save money the best thing I could do is keep my existing vehicles. Or, if I just wanted a new(er)/different car and was going to spend the money anyway, it'd be best for me to look for something fuel efficient and cost effective as I could probably save $50-$100/mo in fuel if I shopped hard.
But if you just would really like a Mazda 6 or something, I'll delete the post and be fully supportive.
Chuck
I know you said "no high-mileage beater," but if you really want to save some actual $$, you might consider an '88-'91 CRX Hf. The KBB on it is $2k or so, so it'd leave a little room in that $2,500 for repair. (Actually a LOT of room as parts are massively available.) And at 50 city/56 highway you'd completely recover your $2,500 investment in only 16 months.
Sure, it's not "cool," it won't get out of its own way, and you're not going to get the "wow, you're sooo green" reaction from the neighbors you'd get with a Prius or something, but it actually would pay off. The best part would be that you could just drive the piss out of it commuting and it's not going to drop in value. Dump it when gas goes back down, you decide to move closer to work, or you get a new job!
Chuck
Last edited by ccage; 09-02-2005 at 10:15 AM.
There's another problem with the VW TDI's...
I can take mine to Carmax (did, just for giggles) and walk away with roughly $1500 more than I paid for it. It has 35k miles, is 2 years old, and has had sufficient collision damage to show up on a CarFax.
Other than the collision, however, it has performed flawlessly* for that 35k miles.
*Brake light switch failed at 12k miles. Center console latch exploded at 32k miles. Yes, it's a VW. Do steer clear of the '01-early '02 Jetta/Golf with window cranks made of silly putty unless they're still under warranty. But it's great to have a German engineered car that gets 44-48 mpg in the city, will cruise 700+ miles at 90+ mph, and will carry a crap load of stuff. Did I mention no depreciation to date?
Last edited by tailchaser; 09-02-2005 at 10:36 AM.
Maybe 4 wheels aren't so bad after all... wickett.org
It only goes to show when people can no longer discriminate on the grounds of race, religion, or sexual orientation, they can improvise and still find someone to hate. - Dave Moulton
I know most people don't want to hear it, but from your friends in high places . . . .gov
Drive Sensibly
Aggressive driving (speeding, rapid acceleration and braking) wastes gas. It can lower your gas mileage by 33 percent at highway speeds and by 5 percent around town. Sensible driving is also safer for you and others, so you may save more than gas money.
Fuel Economy Benefit: 5-33%
Equivalent Gasoline Savings: $0.11-$0.73/gallon
Observe the Speed Limit
Gas mileage decreases rapidly at speeds above 60 mph.
Each 5 mph you drive over 60 mph is like paying an additional $0.15 per gallon for gas.
Observing the speed limit is also safer.
Fuel Economy Benefit: 7-23%
Equivalent Gasoline Savings: $0.15-$0.51/gallon
Note: Cost savings are based on an assumed fuel price of $2.20/gallon.
I once checked the Miata, and it had gotten 10 mpg on a full tank of gas. :mad: Then I remembered I just left a DE on the Roval
ccage, thanks for the spreadsheet. That may influence just how much (if any) I'd be willing to pay over what I can get for the Accord. Honestly, I'd prefer to make a straight trade and pay nothing additional, but...
As for beaters, nope. While I don't give a rat's ass what the neighbors think, I still have to be able to take my boss to lunch in this car without embarrassment. I can do that in a four-year old Civic sedan, but I'd find it much more difficult in a fifteen-year old CRX... if I could even find one that hadn't been completely molested.
Besides, the wife decreed that any replacement must contain four seats (and preferably four doors), so that it can pull potential backup baby-seat duty (thinking ahead a year or two from now).
I've noticed that.
Just for giggles, I looked at used TDI prices on Autotrader. Compared to what I can recall from the last time I did a similar search (probably 6-9 months ago), the prices on used ones seem to be appreciating.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Understood! You're right: boss + beater CRX = no need to commute as often... :)
I'm sorely tempted to dump the Jeep while it still has value. Now that I have the truck there's really no need to haul stuff in the Jeep anymore -- it's solely a people hauler. I guess I'd replace it with something like the Accord, but the cost difference is too high for me right now.
Chuck
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