Originally Posted by mr brg
Have you even been out on the track in a Miata yet? Talk Michael into taking you out to the ranch the next time the guys go and ride in a few different setups.
I'll probably find some blown rebuildables, then move the perches and springs over to those bodies. Then be awesome. Seriously, I don't care to compromise on this issue. I'd hate to actually get out on a track for the first time in years and be in a car that pushes all over the place.
Last edited by Majik; 08-28-2006 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Not funny
Have you even been out on the track in a Miata yet? Talk Michael into taking you out to the ranch the next time the guys go and ride in a few different setups.
JDMclassic is correct. TEINs are rebuildable and can be custom valved. I went with the highest custom front spring rate that was suggested on the stock Flex valving.
They've been great and I'm happier with the fit and finish on the TEIN flex than the Ground Control Race coilovers that I had on my M3 (that were more expensive).
BTW, I'd run TEIN basics over most spring/shock combos for the Miata.
Thomas
V-to-the-Dub
no. His car is daily driven somewhat, mine will not be when I get my daily running again. Actually, I'm thinking about just selling both cars at this point.
Not quite sure where you're getting that price, mr brg, but the type Flex can be had new anywhere from $1100-$1400us depending on where you look, including a couple of local outlets (Track Dog comes to mind). Look for used and prices drop nicely.
Another option in the same price range would be the KW Variant 1, though that setup doesn't offer nearly the same level of adjustability as the Flex. Feedback on the KW setup for a Miata is a little on the sparse side from what I've seen thus far.
You could always pony up for AGX/Ground Control. Black Roadster has this setup and it rides extremely well! GC offers a vast array of spring rates to suit most any taste...
Something to think on, anyway.
'90 "LE" available for purchase soon
2008.5 CWP MS3: JBR 70d trilogy engine mounts, short throw shifter & shift plate bushings; AST 4100 w/ 400lb springs f/r; JRZ camber plates
I think I'm just going to get some revalvable dampers, then weld on some threaded sleeves and use my 420/390 springs. After I learn how to blow money out of my ass, and if I actually find a real job. Will the car understeer horribly with the basics?
or do the smart thing and sell both cars and get something that i can fit in, while still being reliable.
I have had my car on the track 3 times now and I have been passenger in Black Roadster's car with the Ground Controls on the track. Neither had "horrible understeer". I actually can't even recall hearing anyone with a Miata ever complain of understeer on the track. In fact, many remove the rear swaybar to reduce oversteer. I really think you need to see how a few different Miatas behave on the track.
If you are experiencing understeer on your car, you may want to look at the rear spring rates you are running. Most people tend to have success running a much stiffer front spring than on the rear, and your stiff rear springs could add to understeer. SPEC Miatas run something like 700/325.
my car handled wonderfully before the dampers died.
I've got alot of decisions to make, and I don't have the money to do them...so I'm probably just going to sell the car.
I really doubt the Basics will understeer and you can get a higher rear spring rate to alleviate that if that is the case. I chose a much higher front spring rate in my flex kit to prevent too much oversteer. I also removed the rear sway.
Pennington is the only place locally where I seem to need the rear sway for more rotation.
I'm also not sure where you are getting your pricing from, seems a little high. There is Gary locally, Eddy at Adrenaline Racing that deals with a lot of TEIN stuff, and there's always ebay.
Performance-wise I love the TEINs. Just ask the guys I compete against, they've really turned the car around this season.
Thomas
V-to-the-Dub
Man, I'm pretty sure this thread just lowered my IQ.
brg, I'd advise you to do a little reading on suspension basics before you slap some kludged up spring/shock combo under the car. That set of spring rates is going to be teh suck. For a track car I'd want something a lot closer to 550-750 in the front, and 200-350 in the rear.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Yep, same here! Great at the track and still plenty streetable if ya lower the shock settings!
90 MX5 281k miles! - euro spec, Porsche Riviera Blue w/black hardtop, 97 motor swap, vintage Borbet rims, GC, FM shock hats/frame rails/rear sub-brace, AGX, sway bar, stb, Fidanza/ACT combo, EBC Yellows
92 COMMA SM - new paint coming soon...
Ground controlls will cost over $1000 to do right, and then why should I expect the AGK's to last longer than 6 months? I don't get it, the h&r coilovers on my vw a still nice and firm at 9 years old. Why can't anyone else replicate this quality?
i'm just tired of all this stress. It seems like every week there is some new drama, and I can't seem to keep 2 cars running. I need a cheaper hobby. I should have just saved my money and bought a c5.
when people say that tein's are rebuildable...does that mean I have to get parts from some non-english speaking dude in japan to get the rebuilt, or can I actually get parts here.
What about bilstein hd's with tein springs? The hd's are rebuildable right? Does anyone actually make a strong spring, or is it just soft progressive spring rate ricer crap?
If you want stiff & cheap and insist on benchmarking against Euro hardware, why don't you track down a used R-package setup? Rebuildable Bilsteins (not that they'll likely need it), stiff springs, maybe sways too for $250ish.
I've been impressed with what you've done with the car on your described budget, but you seem suddenly keen on tossing the baby out with the bathwater...
Did you look at the spreadsheat I posted? It lists most of the different spring rates for the springs available off the shelf.
Here are some of the more common ones:
90-93 164/97
94-97 154/97
94-97 R-pkg 153/105
Jackson Racing 200/140
Racing Beat 207/145
Eibach 228/137
TEIN S 235/174
TEIN HA 280/224
Flyin' Miata 342/228
Ground Control 375/250
If you want stiffer, the TEIN are available in 55.88 lb/in increments for an upcharge and the Ground Controls are available in 25 lb/in increments.
It sounds like you want a Morton's steak at McDonald's prices... It's not going to happen unless you are willing to comb Ebay and the Miata.net classifieds for months. If you don't want to fork over some decent cash and you don't have the patience to wait out the perfect deal, you may be better off selling the car. If it comes to that, I'd be happy to give you the 2 Grand you say you have into it.
Did you look at the spreadsheat I posted? It lists most of the different spring rates for the springs available off the shelf.
Here are some of the more common ones:
90-93 164/97
94-97 154/97
94-97 R-pkg 153/105
Jackson Racing 200/140
Racing Beat 207/145
Eibach 228/137
TEIN S 235/174
TEIN HA 280/224
Flyin' Miata 342/228
Ground Control 375/250
If you want stiffer, the TEIN are available in 55.88 lb/in increments for an upcharge and the Ground Controls are available in 25 lb/in increments.
It sounds like you want a Morton's steak at McDonald's prices... It's not going to happen unless you are willing to comb Ebay and the Miata.net classifieds for months. If you don't want to fork over some decent cash and you don't have the patience to wait out the perfect deal, you may be better off selling the car. If it comes to that, I'd be happy to give you the 2 Grand you say you have into it.
I wonder if I can get something arround 400/276 from tein, then revalve some bilteins. Are "run of the mill" bilstein hd's rebuildable?
I'm tired of driving this car every day. I'm too big for it or something. I'm also tired of having the slowest car on the block. I've always just wanted a car that can keep up, this one cannot. I also don't handle stress well, I'm about to lose my job, have 3 increadibly painfull injuries, and i'm generally irritable.
The custom teins sound like a good option, and with revalved bilsteins and adjustable perches merged over, I night have a pretty cool set of coilovers that perform, while using very little money and the ability to fire up the machine shop again.
TEIN does not make scab on coilover perches. The benefit of getting a TEIN setup is that they are shortened shocks (unlike the Bilsteins) that have full shock travel when the car is lowered and are valved for the spring rates that they come with (+/- a couple kg/mm). With the Flex kit you lower the car by adjusting the length of the shock body instead of lowering a spring perch, so you can have the car very low and still get shock travel. Miatas have a problem with bottoming out on the bumpstops.
If you are dead set on doing your bilstein setup (I do really like bilsteins, they are great shocks), talk to Altiain he may have a set of coilover perches you can get really cheap. You might also want to take his advice on spring rates b/c the setup you are talking about will be pretty twitchy on the track.
BTW, I don't understand this grotesque understeer problem you talk about. I don't think I've ever driven a Miata (stock or modified) that has had a problem with understeer.
Last edited by Miatamoto; 08-29-2006 at 07:22 AM.
Thomas
V-to-the-Dub
The 400/276 is a similar proportion as the other spring rates listed. I can pull the perches off my current crap coilovers and weld those on to some bilsteins with shortened bodies and shafts. $240 will get the bilsteins shortened and revalved. What spring rate do you recommend and why? Remember I hate driving this car in traffic, it will be pretty much a track car. Back when my car had the working suspension, it handled really well: perfectly neutral and I could gently steer with the throttle.
I don't know that I would do the tein's if even I had the money. Although they are reliable, it seems that its tough to get the parts if you don't pay tein $400 to rebuild them.
Thanks so much for the help, this really has me stressed out...big time. I've been going through hell trying to figuire out my car sittuation, and it seems that nothing can really go right at the moment, on all aspects of my life. It burns my ass that I thought I actually had something decent and fun, then it turned to shit.
This is bigger and quicker.
I'd love to do a turbo smallblock 10.5 outlaw with one those.
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