And the point is what? Who's driving this bus? Here's what it seems like to the majority of us.Originally Posted by JStankus
So if I break my car I don't have to use legible numbers on the loaner?? That's good to know!What SCCA rule number covers that one or is that a Spokes deal? :P
So where were general default & SOLO2M3 both were M.I.A. Sunday?? Anyone know where Mike W gone he has missed quite a few events recently...
Well if you have moveable magnetics, you would need to move them. If you have a mod or prepared car with painted on numbers, what do you do? Do you want to DQ the kids Karters who have a mechanical, and run in someone elses Kart. Where the trailer gets informed that FJ XX is running in FJYY car for this run. If everyone is miss marked, we would have mayhem, but accomodating problems as they come up will help things run smoothly.So if I break my car I don't have to use legible numbers on the loaner?? That's good to know!
Yes there are problems, but come on man, if someone breaks their car, cut them some slack.
John
How about Tape?? Saw a bunch of it being used on on cars yesterday to signify number and class!Well if you have moveable magnetics, you would need to move them. If you have a mod or prepared car with painted on numbers, what do you do? Do you want to DQ the kids Karters who have a mechanical, and run in someone elses Kart. Where the trailer gets informed that FJ XX is running in FJYY car for this run. If everyone is miss marked, we would have mayhem, but accomodating problems as they come up will help things run smoothly.So if I break my car I don't have to use legible numbers on the loaner?? That's good to know!
Yes there are problems, but come on man, if someone breaks their car, cut them some slack.
JohnActually this wasn't really a case of miss marked it was a case of no mark.
Let's Review :
I'd bet cash $$$ my good friend Kestrel would have sent the POS Racer back to the pits if it showed up to the line with the numbers turn upside down and no other visible markings running as FM199. So why was this car allowed to pass? Also how would course workers know what car to post penalties on if any were incurred during the run?We had the usual poor numbering (in particular, a co-driven Merlot NB Miata, that was allowed to run with it's numbers turned upside-down -- and no other markings -- as FM199
I worked in the trailer for the first time yesterday during second heat. The trailer is able to accomodate this, as long as they are notified ahead of time (when the car is still several places back from the start). It does cause a little confusion, but this was actually handled fairly well in the trailer yesterday during the end of the first head and during the second heat. The only thing that I could see that may have helped out would be for the person running the mismarked car to have the starter verify with the trailer that they are aware of the incorrect number/class.How about Tape?? Saw a bunch of it being used on on cars yesterday to signify number and class!Well if you have moveable magnetics, you would need to move them. If you have a mod or prepared car with painted on numbers, what do you do? Do you want to DQ the kids Karters who have a mechanical, and run in someone elses Kart. Where the trailer gets informed that FJ XX is running in FJYY car for this run. If everyone is miss marked, we would have mayhem, but accomodating problems as they come up will help things run smoothly.So if I break my car I don't have to use legible numbers on the loaner?? That's good to know!
Yes there are problems, but come on man, if someone breaks their car, cut them some slack.
John
Let's Review :
I'd bet cash $$$ my good friend Kestrel would have sent the POS Racer back to the pits if it showed up to the line with the numbers turn upside down and no other visible markings running as FM199. So why was this car allowed to pass? Also how would course workers know what car to post penalties on if any were incurred during the run?We had the usual poor numbering (in particular, a co-driven Merlot NB Miata, that was allowed to run with it's numbers turned upside-down -- and no other markings -- as FM199
***EDIT*** I won't fault someone for their car breaking. I will fault someone, however, for not notifying someone of a number / class change.
I gotta agree with POS on this one. There is simply no excuse -- other than blatant favoritism and inconsistent enforcement of the rules -- for having anyone run without numbers. This one is cut and dry. It wasn't a case of poorly done numbers. It wasn't the wrong size letters or bad contrast between the number color and the car's paint (we had several of those little gems too, but that happens everywhere). In this case, the car simply had no numbers at all (or more confusingly, the upside-down numbers of another driver)
The favoritism that is shown some people is just not right, and it is noticed by us grunts. Garcia's bad manners, bullying style, and hypocrisy is overlooked (unfortunately, that’s not just an SCCA failing). "People in high places" can run without numbers.
What ever happened to leading by example?
Which brings up this little gem again.
We have been told time after time in drivers meetings across many clubs that if you do this kind of stuff we could lose the venue we are at, and it will get you booted from the event. This kid gets a warning?Also what was up with the bonehead in the Mustang doing donuts in the parking lot! I thought that was grounds for immediate dismissal from the event, and all this tool got was a warning.
And what rocket scientist issued the warning and left it at that?Which brings up this little gem again.
We have been told time after time in drivers meetings across many clubs that if you do this kind of stuff we could lose the venue we are at, and it will get you booted from the event. This kid gets a warning?Also what was up with the bonehead in the Mustang doing donuts in the parking lot! I thought that was grounds for immediate dismissal from the event, and all this tool got was a warning.
Looked like Mr. Ramey to me...... Saw him booking thought grid and thought “oh yea here we go” and next thing I hear is just gave the kid a warning. Isn’t he the one during the drives meeting telling us we will get booted if we pull this kind of ship?And what rocket scientist issued the warning and left it at that?Which brings up this little gem again.
We have been told time after time in drivers meetings across many clubs that if you do this kind of stuff we could lose the venue we are at, and it will get you booted from the event. This kid gets a warning?Also what was up with the bonehead in the Mustang doing donuts in the parking lot! I thought that was grounds for immediate dismissal from the event, and all this tool got was a warning.
Must have been "cut them some slack" day at TMS yesterday!
I was not exactly at teh mustang, but I was close by... Apparantly by the time he'd done his littel stunt he was already supposedly done with his runs and about out for the day...
OF course.. I had better *NOT* see that guy at teh next event if he didn't get removed form this event because he "was already done"
i managed to put the rear end off track at teh 3rd cone, and had to retech, and the guy was a jerk to me about my numbers not being visible, and they were definatly visible. and was like who teched you? tell me! next time i wont tell anyone i went off a little... if there is a next scca event i run. i got last in my class of 4, i was the only car on street tires, and mine are good for smoking, thats about it.
03 LS FM2ish TDR I/C
99 Disco, the go anywhere ride
Being able to accomodate this in the Trailer is not the point. What if everyone just decided not to put on numbers... could we accomodate that? Sure, we could, but why should we have to? There are strict rules in the SCCA (in particular) about car numbering -- so-and-so tall, by so-and-so wide. These rules are there to reduce the effort that everyone has to make in order to properly identify cars.
And it's not just the Trailer... what about the course workers? This unmarked car hits two cones. How does corner 4 call this in? "uh... the uh... purdy little convertible just hit two cones...". Sorry, but my computer screen didn't have "Purdy Little Convertible" listed on it anywhere.
Don't excuse poor management/execution just because you and the Trailer can "accomodate this". The point is, you shouldn't have too...
I saw them they were not 100% compliant, but you could see them and you actually had them on the car! Plus you had already passed tech with those numbers on the car and then they want you to redo the numbers to meet that particular inspectors requirement.
As far a skipping tech after leaving course that is done for your safety as well as everyone else at the event, I'd greatly appreciate it if you would comply with that rule.
I agree! Didn't Garcia make a point of mentioning the rules in regard to numbering and lettering of cars running in the event during the drivers meeting? If no exceptions were allowed, maybe things would run even smoother and we'd all get our full number of runs! Is this more of "do as I say, not as I do" ?Being able to accomodate this in the Trailer is not the point.
Don't excuse poor management/execution just because you and the Trailer can "accomodate this". The point is, you shouldn't have too...
Again, I have to call
And the point is what? Who's driving this bus? Here's what it seems like to the majority of us.
Well, that gives you two choices.
1) Quit running with SCCA, or
2) or grab a Red Clown nose, and some big floppy shoes and help us try to fix the problems
If you see a problem, and don't try to help fix the problem, you are part of the problem. Even just telling someone that there is a problem when we can still do someting to fix it is a help.
John
I have to agree with this philosophy. There were plenty enough people with racer's tape that there is no excuse that the car wasn't taped with the appropriate class numbers and letters. It takes less time to tape a car than it does to swap tires, and I've done that plenty of times between runs... without holding up the event or needing "accomodations" from anyone.Being able to accomodate this in the Trailer is not the point. What if everyone just decided not to put on numbers... could we accomodate that? Sure, we could, but why should we have to? There are strict rules in the SCCA (in particular) about car numbering -- so-and-so tall, by so-and-so wide. These rules are there to reduce the effort that everyone has to make in order to properly identify cars.
And it's not just the Trailer... what about the course workers? This unmarked car hits two cones. How does corner 4 call this in? "uh... the uh... purdy little convertible just hit two cones...". Sorry, but my computer screen didn't have "Purdy Little Convertible" listed on it anywhere.
Don't excuse poor management/execution just because you and the Trailer can "accomodate this". The point is, you shouldn't have too...
Sorry, but I agree that there is a double standard. Come spend an hour in Tech listening to JG lambasting Novices because their taped on numbers are only 1.25" wide instead of the regulation 1.5" (even when the letters, although not technically "legal", are 100% legible and easy to read from a distance - which is my main concern regarding lettering in Tech) and then explain to me why it's OK for "CSP whetever" upside-down to mean FM199.
Still, that's just an isolated incident that hints at a larger problem - inconsistent enforcement of the rules. JG can throw tantrums and scream at people who aren't doing any harm (getting out of a car four spots back in the staging line while the start is held), but we all have to look the other way while his tempramental yellow Mod car can have the radiator watered down while he holds up a hot start? Screw that.
As for trying to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem... more often than not, when I've opened my mouth, I've been lambasted myself, almost always by the same vocal minority (no pun intended
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Isn't it obvious we all saw problems of some sort yesterday? Aren't we are telling you the problems we saw yesterday? What am I missing?
You're missing the part where JStankus is asking you/us to get in there and help... meaning get on the Board and yell and scream with the rest of them.
Hey John, what do you think we are doing today? Folks outside the Miata comunity lurk here to see what we are saying, just like you John.
Plus we are not standing the sidelines bitching. We are at these events, we are participating, and we are shagging cones, and working in the trailer, and investing our time, and paying our fees!
Also a side note, don't discount the efforts of several folks here for all the work they do for the SCCA. We have at least 3 guys who are in the trenches with you.
Yes, having the feedback is a very good thing.Isn't it obvious we all saw problems of some sort yesterday? Aren't we are telling you the problems we saw yesterday? What am I missing?
But getting the feedback in time to effect some changes
Did anyone complaining about the lettering go up and offer some tape to Tom to make letters on the car? It didn't occur to the folks around him. Tom was busy trying to find another ride mid-heat. Folks with prepared cars generally don't have the masking tape on them for making numbers.
I'm just asking folks to step up and help out.
John
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