So I finally got to drive a bone-stock '04 WRX

[altiain]

I've ridden in Gabby's STi, and I've ridden in Conebasher. I've been considering the possibility of buying a slightly used WRX as a daily driver next year, so when a friend of mine at work recently bought an '04 sedan, I pestered him into letting me drive it before he started throwing parts at it.

There were quite a lot of things to like about the car. First and foremost, the seats are a huge improvement over the Miata. Real side bolsters that actually hold you in place during spirited driving, and a good overall driving position (aided by a tilt wheel and adjustable seat height). I was able to get in and feel comfortable in the car almost from the get go. Fit & finish was good (although it's no Acura), and the cockpit controls are all laid out pretty logically, with a nice, large, centrally located tachometer. Steering wheel is nice, and the steering is pretty communicative for a "sporty" sedan. The stock suspension soaked up rough roads amazingly well (guess that's the benefit of having a long travel, rally derived suspension), the brakes were excellent, and body motions were well controlled.

However, I was left a little wanting. With all of the positive press that the base WRX has gotten over the years, I was expecting it to be a real four-door hotrod. It wasn't, at least to me, and in stock form.

Here's a few of my nitpicks, in no particular order. The stock shifter travel is absurdly long (I understand that there is a factory short shift kit - this car was not so equipped). The pedals are awkwardly placed for heel & toeing. The backseat is pretty tight with normal sized people in the front seats (a good 4-6 inches less legroom than my wife's Accord). Last but not least, it just didn't feel that powerful. Granted, this one only had about 1000 miles on it, but it was positively gutless if you caught it off boost... and the way the gears are spaced, a typical 2nd gear, 90-degree street corner will catch you well off boost every time. Once it climbs up on boost it will get up and go, but the powerband was very obviously a turbocharged one, with a lot of low-end turbo lag followed by a rising sensation that started between 3500-4000 rpm. The power delivery really remonded me why I'm not a big fan of turbocharged cars in general.

Overall, I was a little disappointed. I certainly wouldn't buy one to replace the Miata, as it was nowhere near as fun to drive when pushed hard. On the other hand, it was a lot more comfortable over rough pavement, and the added benefit of standard ABS, AWD, and side airbags (plus four doors and a back seat) would make it a better daily driver, imho. Is it a good car for the money? Probably. Is it a sports car? Unfortunately, I don't think I could honestly say that it was. It has sporting intentions and a decent amount of power (once you get it on boost), but it doesn't have the reflexes of a real sports car. Too soft, and way too much turbo lag as it comes from the factory.

I might still buy one next year, but I don't think it's at the top of my list any more. Honestly, the one stock Mazdaspeed Protege I had a chance to drive was a more entertaining and engaging car to push hard, but it might give up a little to the WRX in daily driving comfort.

Iain

[bigDstars]

Interesting. Anything out there you would enjoy driving more than the Miata? Any BMW products? I bought the Miata because I didn't know what else I wanted, and have really come to appreciate the driving experience more than I could have imagined. I was in a position to spend more money, but couldn't come up with a reason why. I have a friend with a very nice 95 M3 that he's had since 96. Very well maintained and in excellent shape, but $12-13k in price, and maintenance and insurance costs scared me, so I've gotta pass on that. I guess I'm cheap at heart, like most people around here...

I always enjoy reading other driver's opinions of cars...

[altiain]

Well, I don't necessarily think that the WRX is a worse car than the Miata, it's just different, and didn't quite live up to the hype I've heard about it for the last three years. It would certainly make a better daily driver, as it's a lot more comfortable and quiet to drive, not to mention more practical. As a commuter car I think it would outshine the Miata by quite a bit. Unfortunately, when you really start to push it, it just doesn't match up. At anything over about 7/10ths, it became quite apparent to me that the WRX was a hopped up economy sedan, while the Miata was a true sports car, even if it's not that fast in a straight line.

As for BMW products... I've ridden in a Dinan-supercharged '99 M3. I'd probably trade my Miata for that.

Seriously, though... there are plenty of cars I would probably enjoy as much as the Miata. I've always harbored a secret love of the BMW M Coupes - not the M3 Coupe, but the funny, tennis shoe-shaped M Coupe that they made for only a few years in the late '90s and early '00s. I've ridden in a couple and I've had a chance to drive one for a short distance, and I loved it. The only gripe I had was that the clutch pedal was a little stiff. But the seats, steering wheel, ergonmics, handling, and brakes were impeccable, and I don't think there's a sexier engine note on the planet (other than some Italian exotics) than those silky smooth Bimmer inline sixes.

I'd love to have one. The only thing that would make me hesitate to buy a used BMW (especially a used M model) would be the upkeep expenses. I've been beating the snot out of my Miata at autocrosses and on road courses for 2 & 1/2 years, and it hasn't so much as whimpered yet. After 6 months of the same type of abuse, my twin-turbo RX7 needed $8000 in repairs. I imagine the M car would be closer to the RX7 in maintenance than the Miata.

Iain

[Kestrel]

OK, so if you were buying that OTM today, what would it be? I assume it wouldn't be the WRX, and I know you enjoyed pedaling that RX8 this past weekend...

[altiain]

If I were buying a new car, probably an RX-8. However, I'd want to drive an STi and an Evo for comparison purposes.

Here's a comment I made last night on the pointy board regarding the RX-8:

I had a student at an autocross with a brand new (only 2500 miles on it) RX-8 this weekend, and I was able to fit in it comfortably even with my helmet on, but the RX-8 in question was a Base 6-speed model with no sunroof. I'm 5'11", with short legs and a long torso, and headroom - especially with a helmet - is usually an issue for me in sports cars. However, the non-sunroof RX-8 had more headroom than my Miata does, plus it also beat out my old '98 Prelude and '93 RX-7 for helmet clearance.

Even better, I got a chance to drive the car at about 8/10ths on a 1.5 mile autocross course while showing my student the line. What a fun car! As much as I hate the marketing tagline, it really is the closest thing to a "four-door sports car" that I've driven lately. The ergonomics of the cockpit say performance car, not "sports sedan", with a lower and more reclined seating position, proper pedal placement for heel & toe shifting, supportive seats with excellent bolstering (this particular car had the cloth seats and I liked them), plus a steering wheel and shifter that fall readily to hand.

As a driving car, it was wonderfully communicative. The steering was very well weighted, offering excellent tactile feedback and a wonderful ratio for enthusiastic driving, the brake pedal had a very linear feel to it, and throttle response was very crisp. The car's turn in response was excellent - the RX-8 was as eager as a young puppy to change direction when asked, without seeming twitchy or darty at higher speeds. Must be that low polar moment of inertia, because I can't remember ever driving another car that offered the same blend of high-speed directional stability and lightning fast turn-in response. Transitional behavior was excellent - the RX-8 exhibited great balance, and was relatively easy to rotate with a sharp throttle lift or little trail braking, without ever wanting to come around on you.

As for the engine... I guess there's a reason I've owned two RX-7s. Nothing in the world is as smooth as a rotary, and the RX-8 is as smooth as they come. Throttle response was very crisp, and the powerband proved to be very linear - there are no peaks or valleys or cam switchovers or turbos spooling. Just a seamless, constantly rising amount of power. I found it to be a very tractable engine, and while it doesn't offer stump-pulling torque, the engine's desire and ability to rev freely made it easy to keep this car on the boil.

Overall, I loved it. I was immediately comfortable driving this car hard, much more so than in anything else I can recall having driven lately. It doesn't offer the same kind of brutal punch that an STi or Evo offers at a similar price point, but the RX-8 as a whole is truly greater than the sum of its parts. An excellent driver's car, and one that also appears to offer at least some amount of practicality.

I won't even start to categorize used cars under $30k, as I'd have a very long list indeed. But the RX-8 gets my nod as the "new car under $30k that I've driven that I'd most like to own".

Iain

[Kestrel]

If I were buying a new car, probably an RX-8. However, I'd want to drive an STi and an Evo for comparison purposes.

Here's a comment I made last night on the pointy board regarding the RX-8:

<snip>

I won't even start to categorize used cars under $30k, as I'd have a very long list indeed. But the RX-8 gets my nod as the "new car under $30k that I've driven that I'd most like to own".

Iain

Great write-up on the RX-8. I know you don't care for the Mini (Cooper S)... is it mostly because of the wrong-wheel drive, or are there other factors?

You see, I want to get rid of my very practical, very reliable, very boring Honda CRV at some time in the near future, and get another OTM. It will be my usual daily driver (Miata being more of a weekend fun car/autocrosser/track car), so it needs to be engaging, quick, nimble, and have some style/flair to it. And it needs to be able to seat two adults and two small kids. And I prefer it to be under $30,000... the more under the better.

Top on my list right now is a Mini Cooper S, with the RX-8 closing in. There are a couple of other 2+2s out there that might fit the bill (350Z, Audi TT). And there are a ton of coupes and "sporty sedans" that would clearly work (I actually like the Mazda 6), but none of them really trip my trigger.

In the end, I may just decide I need a tow vehicle for my Spec Miata.

[tailchaser]

I think the RX-8 is a much more competent daily driver than the Cooper S, wrong wheel drive being only part of the equation. The driving position and perceived space are much better with the 8. Your kids will be happier in back, as well.

[POS Racing]

I think the RX-8 is a much more competent daily driver than the Cooper S, wrong wheel drive being only part of the equation. The driving position and perceived space are much better with the 8. Your kids will be happier in back, as well.

My sister-in-law has an RX8 and she is moving back to Texas next month! She said I could drive it! I'd like to see if a few miles on the motor would assist in the power department.

She also has a 16 year old son, she wants him to have "Uncle Mick" give him some additional training, I'm thinking an S2K event in her car!

[Kestrel]

My sister-in-law has an RX8 and she is moving back to Texas next month! She said I could drive it! I'd like to see if a few miles on the motor would assist in the power department.

She also has a 16 year old son, she wants him to have "Uncle Mick" give him some additional training, I'm thinking an S2K event in her car!

That would be fun...

[altiain]

Great write-up on the RX-8. I know you don't care for the Mini (Cooper S)... is it mostly because of the wrong-wheel drive, or are there other factors?

Where'd you get that idea?

You've got to remember that I'm originally from the "wrong-wheel drive" crowd - I raced fwd Hondas for a couple of years before buying the RX-7, which led to the Miata. I don't have the anti-fwd bias that some people do. As a matter of fact, one of my favorite "reasonably priced" cars is still the Integra Type R - a better handler than a lot of "right" wheel drive cars that I've driven.

Although I do believe that the classic front-engine, rear-wheel drive is probably the best starting platform for a good handling car, I've driven enough fun front drivers to know that it isn't the only recipe for fun.

Unfortunately, I've never driven a MINI, Cooper S or otherwise, so I really couldn't give you much input on their dynamic capabilities. However, what I've read has led me to the following pre-conceived ideas about the Cooper:

1) The combination of a short wheelbase, stiff suspension, and large amounts of unsprung weight (typical wheel/tire combo weights on the Coopers are 50+ pounds, since the wheels are heavy and the tires are run-flat ) means the Cooper isn't going ot be a smooth freeway cruiser. Numerous magazine reviews have noted the same thing. So the Cooper might not be your best bet for a long distance touring car.

2) There seem to be a higher than average number of problems with the first two production years. I've read plenty of horror stories about engines dying in mid turn, shifter cable problems, multiple dealer ecu reflashes, etc. Unfortunately, the new MINI hasn't exactly earned a stellar reputation so far for being trouble or problem-free. If the cars have this many problems now, what will they be like four or five years from now when they're off warranty?

3) You don't get a whole lot of car for your money. A fully loaded Cooper S with every conceivable widget goes for over $26k. Add the dealer installed "Works" Package for 200 flywheel horsepower and you're looking at over $30k for a fully-optioned Cooper S. That's big money for a cute little hatchback. If you really need a compact car with ABS, side airbags, stability control, in-dash navigation, sunroof, HID headlights, leather, and all the bells and whistles with ~160hp... I'd be headed down to my Mazda dealer to check out a fully loaded 3S instead. You'll get just about all of the same bells and whistles, better build quality and likely better long-term reliability, similar power, and a fully-optioned 3S with nav, ABS, DSC, sunroof, leather, etc will set you back closer to $21k.

On the other hand, if I was looking for a semi-practical 2-door, 4-seater car and was more interested in performance and supreme reliability than in bels and whistles, I'd probably take a hard look at the Acura RSX Type S. They're supposedly pretty fun to drive, offer a lot of bang for the buck performance-wise, and they've got that near-legendary Acura reliability. They're also just as practical as a Cooper and a few thousand cheaper to boot.

Iain

[tailchaser]

You should probably also go visit your local VW dealer (Boardwalk, there is no other)...

The GTI is a NICE package for a front driver... It's a bit bigger than the Mini, but a nice handling ride. A fully optioned VR6 is under $25k - under $23k if your forego leather and automatic climate control. Not sure about the R32... I could probably do without the 17 inch wheels (or are they 18?), but they are VERY VERY fun to drive.

Heck, even my over-sized, underpowered GTI wannabe Jetta Wagon TDI is fun to drive. Of course, it would be a lot more fun with the stiffer suspension goodies on the GTI...

[Kestrel]

Great write-up on the RX-8. I know you don't care for the Mini (Cooper S)... is it mostly because of the wrong-wheel drive, or are there other factors?

Where'd you get that idea?

Reading too much into this post I suppose, where you said:

Very cool. I'd be interested in renting everything but the Mini, the Renault, the Lancia, and the Boxster.

Iain

Thanks for your thoughts on the Mini. I like it (the style, the attitude, etc), but I'd agree there are better preforming cars around... and for less money as well. Like I said, I actually like the Mazda 6 (I haven't seen a Mazda 3, something I'll remedy tomorrow at the Dallas Car Show ), and have thought about the VWs that chaser suggests too.

At the moment, I'm just fishing. I need to get my wife a new house before I can really get serious about another OTM.

[altiain]

You should probably also go visit your local VW dealer (Boardwalk, there is no other)...

Here's my biggest gripe with VW: I owned an '85 Quantum GL-5 for almost two years back in the early '90s. During the time that I owned it, all four power window regulators failed - always leaving them half open, and usually during inclement weather.

My understanding is that the current VWs also suffer from a higher-than-average number of power window regulator failures (as well as the ever-popular coil pack problems). The way I look at it, if a company can't figure out how to build a power window that works in 20 years , they probably don't build a car I'd want to own long term.

That's just my $.02.

Iain

[tailchaser]

The window regulator failures in the current generation A4 chassis were solved mid-2001, along with the coil pack issue. VW has certainly had more than its share of mishaps, but in recent years, they have at least had the decency to cover these known failures well past the warranty period.

[bigDstars]

I too am a big fan of the funny looking BMW coupes (especially M). A guy down the street has a regular 2.8 Z3 coupe - looks great. I would buy one of those, M or 2.8 or 3.0.... A friend just picked up a Mazda 3 over the weekend. Loaded with Navigation and everything. Pretty neat car with a lot of options for the money.

[Austin the Great]

A couple years ago when Automobile had just given the wrx car of the year, I convinced my mom to go test drive one, because she was looking at a sedan for her. And I wanted her to get the fun manual one. The car was fast back then, but now a days, most sedans are making over 200 horsepower. I went on a test driving binge a couple of weeks ago, and got the chance to drive a Mitsubishi Evolution RS (The stripped out model) that car renewed my faith in turbochargers, When the boost kicked in the car took off like a rocket.

I also got to drive a new 04 wrx, and while the car has improved alot in finish and feel, it feels significantly slower. The engine was amazingly smooth, as was the ride, but as years go by, if the base wrx doesnt increase in hp, its going to be left in the dust.

My mom ended up buying a 2.5 nissan altima by the way