Brakes feel weak at the Autocross 102

[TurboDuane]

I don't know what the black car has for brake pads, but I'm thinking of replacing them. They had some noticable fade by my 2nd run, and they just seem weak. They are hard to get real braking prior to locking up the front wheels. So my brakes feel weak then lock. Am I making any since?

What pads are you other AutoX's using?

[Majik]

What does your fluid look like? I use oem pads, and they have never faded even at MSR

[altiain]

What kind of fade were you getting? Was the pedal firm, but the brakes didn't feel like they were doing anything (pad fade), or was the pedal mushy (fluid fade)?

If the brake pedal felt firm but the car just didn't feel like it wanted to slow down, that would be pad fade, caused by exceeding the thermal capacity of the pads. Considering the braking exercizes at AX102 (they were using the back straight for braking practice, right?), a set of cheap, no-name pads could easily get overworked, especially on a turbo car.

If you don't know what kind of pads are on the car, ditch 'em and buy something worthwhile. Mazda OEM aren't a bad choice for street and autox, but I prefer the Axxis Ultimates. They have better initial "bite", imho, and they have a higher thermal capacity than the OEM pads, which might be useful on a car that is capable of generating a little more speed than a stock Miata. The downside is that they dust a lot more. Hawk makes some decent pads as well, with the HPS being pretty equivalent to the Ultimates. The HP+ is more of a "street/track" pad, and it works very well on the track, but can be a bit noisy in stop & go street driving.

Also, if you don't know when the brake fluid was last changed, I'd go ahead and flush it as a precaution. Best to buy a couple of liters of fluid for this, and run about a 1/2 L through each line - this should be sufficient to ensure that you've gotten whatever old fluid there is out of the system completely. Valvoline synthetic is a great budget choice, although if you plan on tracking the car I'd probably recomment Motul, again because your car has more speed potential than a stock Miata, and more speed generally means more braking.

[TurboDuane]

Yes, the brake pedal was firm, the brakes just didn't want to do anything.

So let me see if I've got this right:

Axxis Ultimates better than OEM but high dust. Are they loud?

Hawk HPS, equivilant to the above with simular dusting and still quite.

Hawk HP+, better than the above two options, but not ideal for stopNgo.

[altiain]

Axxis Ultimates better than OEM but high dust. Are they loud?

Hawk HPS, equivilant to the above with simular dusting and still quite.

Hawk HP+, better than the above two options, but not ideal for stopNgo.

Yep. Most high friction pads will dust more than OEM. The Ultimates are pretty quiet for street use (that's what I've been using for the past year), and are fine for autox & street use. The HPS are pretty similar. The HP+ are probably better for outright track use (higher thermal capacity), but squeal and grind in street use. The HP+ also need a little heat in them to be effective (first use after 20 minutes on the freeway can be a little suprising sometimes). HPS & Ultimates work well even when cold.

I'd probably recommend the HPS or Ultimates for your application.

[Black_devil_miata]

Hawk makes a really good pad, I would go with those. To eleminate fad I would suggest using a racing brake fluid like motul.

[Screamin'Screw]

You probably glazed the bad and rotor. I did the sale thing this weekend at Texas World Speedway. I forgot my Hawk Blues at home, so I ened up using a set of Autozone pads. THAT was fun. Nothing like coming off the main strait @ 128MPH to slow the car down on $11 brake pads. Talk about pucker factor.

Do NOT go with any full race pads like hawk blues. You will not get them warmed up properly until the middle or end of your run. I did NOT like the HP+ pads. Very Sqweeky when cold. HPS is not bad.