Open track Suspension HELP!!!

[Screamin'Screw]

I really foobarred my suspension setup for open track and I need some input. If I would have been more rested I would have come to my senses and mde changes at the track but I was too tired from battling a rear caliper to tackle a suspension change at the track.

Here are the basics of my setup - Please don't laugh. I did not put it together.

Stock Springs
Koni Yellows - Set on the lower perch in the front, Upper perch on the rear

Racing Beat Adjustable Sway bars set to full soft in the rear. Full soft front.

Badly worn Rock hard Yokohama A008 195/60/14 on stock 5.5 inch rims.

The car is rolling badly. In heavy cornering, the front tires rub on the ABS plactic wheel well. The tires are wearing fine on the street and the alignment seems fine for street, however, at the track the outer third of the tire is wearing much faster than the rest of the tire.

The car is understeering.

Picture of the car loaded in the corners show it almost on 3 wheels and badly rolled over. Weight transfers seem slow.

My initial thoughts are:

1. Stiffen up sway bars
2. Soften shock settings
3. New tires are a given (but do I go with 195/60 or 185/60 to avoid the rubbing)

Spending additional money

1. Stiffer springs
2. KYB 8-ways

What are your thoughts

[Titus]

The Koni yellows should be fine, but you really should get some stiffer springs. The Stiffer springs and the hard setting on the sway bars should stop the tire rubbing. I have 205s and got no rubbing when I was out at MSR.

[TurboDuane]

Yea what Titus said. I'm running 205's as well and have no rubbing.

[fwMiata]

ok, for a street alignment, you will most likely occure a push, that is because you arent running alot of negative camber in the front and rear. you can stiffen up the swaybar to counteract this and possibly stiffen th eshocks, not alot due to factory springs.

[Screamin'Screw]

My rubbing issue seems to be from height not width. If I had not fubarred the Caliper I'm sure I would have set the car up better. I need to get my head out of my collective ass and realize I'm not in the green run group anymore - The car needs to be set up for the track not just casually head over to the track with my street setup.

Next time they will fear the Miata!

By the way, if you have never seen Keith Verges's Yellow Turbo Miata at MSR you really need to go check it out. He was passing EVRYTHING on the track including a LAMBO driven by Steve Hill. The car is impressive as hell and the inspiration fo me to get my FMII. Keith's a pretty darn good pilot too. Keith recently ran it in a NASA American Iron Extreme race just for kicks. Let's just say, he won't be invited back. If you are REALLY nice he will give a tour of his new Spec Miata that has an electronics package that rivals F1. And if you are even more nice to him, you might even get a ride in his LAMBO.

[fwMiata]

yeah keiths turbo car is wicked fast.

[altiain]

My initial thoughts are:

1. Stiffen up sway bars
2. Soften shock settings
3. New tires are a given (but do I go with 195/60 or 185/60 to avoid the rubbing)

Spending additional money

1. Stiffer springs
2. KYB 8-ways

What are your thoughts

Before I started spending money on parts, I maximize what you've got on the car already. Start by running that front bar at full stiff, and getting a decent performance alignment - there have been plenty of threads on alignments here, so search the archives.

That, and a new set of tires (I'd recommend Toyo RA-1s or Kumho Victoracers for a primarily track car) ought to make a huge improvement.

[MadMerv]

You threw a bunch of stuff at us, but some of the important stuff has been left out (air pressure, alignment settings), so I'll just throw back a little information. Not knowing your experience level has a lot to do with what I'll tell you, but I suspect you need more seat time in a "stock" setup before you start making changes to the car. In all cases, the nut behind the wheel needs to be fixed first.

First, the stock springs will make the car roll terribly, especially since you have the sway bars full-soft. HOWEVER, this is not really a bad thing. Racing in Showroom Stock requires stock suspension and the cars still fly......

You should never have tire rubbing UNLESS you have a very unusual wheel offset. Stock is 45mm, and you can got down to 30mm, keeping the tires inside the wheel wells with 205/50-15s. I would suggest moving the rear shocks to the bottom perch. The stock car normally has a slight rake, but you have increased it by dropping the fronts and not the rears. That is part of your push. Stiffening ONLY the front bar will aggrevate the push, so also go up a notch on the rear, or use that extra power to throttle-steer the car.

You don't need race rubber to get the car neutral, just to go faster. I recommend you stick with a decent street tire until you get the car handling properly, YOU feel comfortable with the car, then get some 'R' tires.

I would recommend an conservative alignment just to have a decent place to start: One degree negative camber in front. One and a half in back. Stock caster. Zero toe in front. One eith toe-in in the rear. If you don't think that is aggressive enough, add another half degree of camber front and back and add an eighth toe out in the front. I would also recommend setting the front shocks full firm and the rears in the middle.

Just a note on tires: As Iain stated, the 'R' tires will make a huge improvement, BUT they will also mask bad driving skills. LEARN to drive the car on street tires first, then "R' tires really will make a huge difference.

Good luck...................

[Screamin'Screw]

I'm no Mad Merv but I have been running in the RED run groups for a while with my Cobra. I volunteered to move down to the yellow group until I can sort this out. I think the KONI yellows are just too low for 195/60/14 (185/60/14 is the stock wheel), combined with soft sway bar setting/stock springs and you have rubbing on the TOP of the Wheel well. The Side walls are fine therefor the offset should not be a problem - Especially with Stock rims.

The engine is not putting out what it should - I am guessing 165hp to the rear wheels. Not too shabby, but it not what the FM should be doing. THAT's another story completely.

My alignment settings are pretty close to the numbers you indicated. Air pressure was a hot 32 - 34 psi

I am going to be switching to 195/55/14 (VictoRacers V700) and Stiffen up the fronts sway to midpoint and rears to full stiff. I'll Play around with the shocks to see if I can dial them in better. The konis are pretty old so it might be time to switch them out anyway. I have heard good things about the KYB/FM spring Setup.

I'll know more once I get it all installed and back out at MSR.

For a variety of reasons I'd rather stick to the R Compounds. I upgraded the brakes to 94+ and without ABS, the HAWK Blues lock up Street tires pretty quick. I have even used Autozone pads to create a poor mans ABS.

[MadMerv]

I have the same shocks on Sunny and am currently running (on the street) 205/50-15's with RB sways on full soft and have no rubbing problems. Your choice of 195/55-14 V-700's has always been my choice for a stock Miata, with Hawk blues, ON THE TRACK. I would never use either on the street!

This is a Miata we're talking about. You shouldn't be having all these problems you mention, unless you may be making multiple changes at one time. A good tuner will NEVER make more than one change at a time, otherwise one cannot know, for sure, what caused what changes. Take your time and run a session, evaluate the results, and make one change to address one problem. Go out the next session and do it all over again. Sometimes you gain, sometimes you lose! This IS a science and requires patience and SEAT TIME.

I have always been a proponent of "less is more", ever since I got in my first Miata at TWS in the Fall of 1989! I don't care what group you're in, the rules are the same: Get the basics down BEFORE you start modding. If you do, a Miata will reward you with lap times that rival vehicles with 2-3 times the power. Power ain't everything........

BTW, you don't run those Hawk blues on the street, do you??????