Car & Driver: Solstice Wins Round One

[srivendel]

Don't have the issue in front of me at the moment, but the Solstice beats the NC in this month's (Oct) Car & Driver. They like it better "subjectively" but say that things may change once they conduct instrumented testing on both.

Also, the NC's performance numbers come within a hair's breadth, and sometimes trump, the MSM. Looks like a winner, but I wonder how this whole Solstice issue will sort out.

S.

[wrxmr2eater]

I can't say that I like the NC, but I can say that I C/D needs to look at itself seriously after that article. First they say the Solstice wins after the NC beats it in all performance categories, and say that the Solstice is better because it is heavier ?????

This is after they state that the NC is extremely stable on one page and then say it is delicate and never settles down on the next. They really should have thought twice about publishing that article at this point in each cars introduction.

Im leary of the 0-60 times as R/T and others have tested it right at 7 sec 0-60. Unless they have a ringer 6.5 is pretty damn hard to get with a car weighing 2448 as it was published and a 170HP engine.

[Kestrel]

Car & Who? What a rag. I won't worry until AutoWeek or some worthwhile magazine does a proper comparo. But, of course, we already know what the verdict will be:

• Third Place: the Sky will be the "aggressive styling for the kids" winner, but it won't feel as solid as the Solstice, and will drive/ride more harshly.
• Second Place: the Solstice will be the "comfortable daily driver / boulevard cruiser" winner. A perfect place to enjoy your latte while shopping at Tiffany's.
• First Place: the MX5 will be the performance winner, but the editors will lament the fact that while the NC is more "user friendly", the Miata/MX5 has lost some of its edge.

How's that for pre-judging the results?

[srivendel]

First they say the Solstice wins after the NC beats it in all performance categories, and say that the Solstice is better because it is heavier ?????

I believe Pontiac calls this "road hugging weight".

S.

[POS Racing]

I believe Pontiac calls this "road hugging weight".

S.

I know this to be true, the more weight the better it handles!

[altiain]

[color=navy][*]Second Place: the Solstice will be the "comfortable daily driver / boulevard cruiser" winner. A perfect place to enjoy your latte while shopping at Tiffany's.

Based on options packaging between the NC & Solstice, it appears that GM is going after the enthusiast more than Mazda - the NC seems to be aimed squarely at the "wine & cheese" crowd, imho. You can order a Solstice with the Torsen, the Bilstein shock/suspension Package, and nothing else (including a/c). Unfortunately, Mazda has chosen to force buyers to take all the superfluous crap in order to get the worthwhile factory performance-enhancing options.

I'm starting to think the Solstice might turn out to be the more sporting of the two. Never count out a 2800-lb car with moderate torque and factory wheels wide enough to fit some serious rubber (cough, cough... RX-8 ).

BTW, the weight difference between the Solstice and the NC is less than the weight difference between the NC and the NB... and the Solstice offers a much larger increase in torque for the additional weight.

[wrxmr2eater]

BTW, the weight difference between the Solstice and the NC is less than the weight difference between the NC and the NB... and the Solstice offers a much larger increase in torque for the additional weight.

The 2001 NB in LS trim is 2387Lbs curb weight. The NC in GT trim is 2690 with a 180 Lb driver putting it at 2510 curb weight. The Solstice is 3068 with a 180 Lb driver so 2888 curb weight. While still a porker the NC is only 123 pounds more in test trim. The pleasantly plump Solstice is the mere 501 pounds heavier in test trim.

Not once in the Solstice review was nimble ever used as a descriptor.

[srivendel]

Based on options packaging between the NC & Solstice, it appears that GM is going after the enthusiast more than Mazda - the NC seems to be aimed squarely at the "wine & cheese" crowd, imho. You can order a Solstice with the Torsen, the Bilstein shock/suspension Package, and nothing else (including a/c). Unfortunately, Mazda has chosen to force buyers to take all the superfluous crap in order to get the worthwhile factory performance-enhancing options.

Plus, with the Pontiac, you get the warm'n'fuzzy feeling that comes with buying American. (And some of us even get the Employee Discount ) It'll be interesting to see how things shake down. I'm happy with my MSM for a long time. When it comes time to replace it, I figure the NC MSM will be out (or maybe the ND ) so I'll see how the market looks then.

That said, if my car were stolen tomorrow and I were left shopping for a new one, the NC wouldn't be an automatic choice.

S.

[Titus]

That said, if my car were stolen tomorrow and I were left shopping for a new one, the NC wouldn't be an automatic choice.

S.

That was my feeling till I saw this photoshop. It has me thinking that I need to work hard to get the Murano paid off quickly so I am ready for another car payment if and when it becomes available.

[altiain]

The 2001 NB in LS trim is 2387Lbs curb weight. The NC in GT trim is 2690 with a 180 Lb driver putting it at 2510 curb weight. The Solstice is 3068 with a 180 Lb driver so 2888 curb weight. While still a porker the NC is only 123 pounds more in test trim. The pleasantly plump Solstice is the mere 501 pounds heavier in test trim.

Not once in the Solstice review was nimble ever used as a descriptor.

Whoops - my apologies. I thought the Solstice was closer to 2800 than 2900lbs empty.

Still, you're starting with the biggest, heaviest NB for comparison purposes. The '99 NB, optioned correctly (and with all of the Sport Package goodies, including the Torson),weighed just a bit over 2200 pounds in factory trim, substantially less than the porker '01 LS.

I'm still starting to think that the torque and tire advantage of the Solstice ( combined with the wheel size and gearing disadvantages of the NC) are going to make the Solstice a better autocrosser. If my Sport got totalled tomorrow, I'd either go looking for another '99 Sport, a Laguna Blue '95 R Package to terrorize E Stock with... or seriously contemplate spending money at a GM dealership for the first time in my life.

[POS Racing]

Based on options packaging between the NC & Solstice, it appears that GM is going after the enthusiast more than Mazda - the NC seems to be aimed squarely at the "wine & cheese" crowd, imho. You can order a Solstice with the Torsen, the Bilstein shock/suspension Package, and nothing else (including a/c). Unfortunately, Mazda has chosen to force buyers to take all the superfluous crap in order to get the worthwhile factory performance-enhancing options.

I'm sure Wine & Cheese is a big segment for Mazda, but what about us cone smacking punks! We need love also!

May have to go look at the P-Back!

[srivendel]

The '99 NB, optioned correctly,weighed just a bit over 2200 pounds in factory trim, substantially less than the porker '01 LS.

Watch it, little-car man.



S.

[POS Racing]

The '99 NB, optioned correctly,weighed just a bit over 2200 pounds in factory trim, substantially less than the porker '01 LS.

Your definition of substatialy must be different than mine!

Do you rememer the following from a past SCCA test & tune!

At the SCCA Test and Tune we were able to run a few Miati over the scales! Here is what we saw:

• Mark52 '96 Base 2,135 lbs w/o driver *
  POS '92 "C" Package 2,193 lbs. w/o driver
  Stoltz '96 M 2,350 lbs. w/o driver
  General Default '99 Sport 2,267 lbs. w/o driver
  Altiain '99 Sport 2,311 lbs. w/o driver
  onething '01 LS 2,403 lbs. w/o driver
  

*Don't ask what's in the trunk!

[wrxmr2eater]

Still, you're starting with the biggest, heaviest NB for comparison purposes. The '99 NB, optioned correctly (and with all of the Sport Package goodies, including the Torson),weighed just a bit over 2200 pounds in factory trim, substantially less than the porker '01 LS.

2299 from published data for the 99 with the sport trim and LSD.

My point is a car magazine calling the heavier, slower, less agile car a better car. I am not a fan of the NC. The front end and the fru fru junk dont do it for me. The same can be said of the Solstice. Its much more a cruiser than a sports car. Im thinking that a 05 MSM or base model is a better buy than either of the newcomers.

[altiain]

Your definition of substatialy must be different than mine!

Do you rememer the following from a past SCCA test & tune!

Yes, I do. Do you recall that mine has a/c, a hitch, and 55-lbs of roll bar? That General Default's has a/c, power steering, and a hitch?

We never got to weigh John Baker's car - no a/c, no p/s, no hitch. That would have been as light a '99 Sport as you could have ordered from the factory.

wrxmr2eater, that published number is, again, for a '99 Sport with both a/c and power steering - about 70-80 pounds of weight that you could order a '99 from the factory without. I stand by my previous statement, that you could option a '99 Sport from the factory with everything you'd need for autocrossing that would weigh just a bit over 2200 pounds.

[Treibenschnell]

...or seriously contemplate spending money at a GM dealership for the first time in my life.

Say it isn't so!

By the way, Road & Track just did their October write up and came up with just the opposite opinion... they put the NC as the better of the two.

[Kags1969]

here is the article

[icepenguin66]

Well then, someone needs to buy an NC and then we can "borrow" my mother's Solstice when it comes in later this month (hopefully) and take'em to the Ranch or an autox and have our own little test!

Someone mentioned that the Solstice seems more geared toward racers based on the option packages, but there is one huge flaw GM made in the Solstice being a sports car...I see no possible way to install a functional SCCA approved roll bar in it without removing the top and hacking up the tonneu cover. So all of us gear heads that love to track our cars would be screwed if we bought a Solstice.

My friend in Detroit got to drive a Solstice and was very impressed with the quality, ride and performance. Although GM has made a huge improvement in quality, especially interior, I don't see it being as nice as a Mazda.

*R&T and CD suck at testing cars! When one of them test a car and get an 11 mph difference in 1/4 mile runs then something is not right! or when they test a bunch of tuner supercars and run a 13.8 (or 13.6) 1/4 mile time in an 800hp twinturbo Viper!

[altiain]

Someone mentioned that the Solstice seems more geared toward racers based on the option packages, but there is one huge flaw GM made in the Solstice being a sports car...I see no possible way to install a functional SCCA approved roll bar in it without removing the top and hacking up the tonneu cover. So all of us gear heads that love to track our cars would be screwed if we bought a Solstice.

Same potential problem with the NC. The new top designs are going to make packaging a real roll bar without losing the soft top extremely difficult.

[icepenguin66]

Same potential problem with the NC. The new top designs are going to make packaging a real roll bar without losing the soft top extremely difficult.

I thought the Mazda NC club sport race car show car had rear braces that could work with the soft top? At least there looks to me some space to work with on the NC, where as the Solstice has none!