Reply With QuoteIf you are trying to be green, I applaud you. If you are trying to save money, do some research on how long it takes for one of those to recoup their extra cost.
Comparing Hybrids
I'm in the market for a new car for the wife and I'm thinking about a Hybrid. The wife doesn't want a little car like the Civic, so we are looking at Accord class cars. If you've got any real experiance with any of the Hybrids out there please voice in.
We test drove the Accord Hybrid, but their MPG is pretty low considering it's a Hybrid. We're thinking for $8,000 differance the 4cyl Accord looks like it gets close to the same MPG, so why buy the Hybrid?
We're going to look at the Toyota Hybrid tomorrow.
'08 Copper Red GT PRHT, '06 Accord EXL, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T, '01 V8 Dakota for pulling 2135 Chaparral.
If you are trying to be green, I applaud you. If you are trying to save money, do some research on how long it takes for one of those to recoup their extra cost.
Autoweek compared the new cars, Accord hybrid, Jetta TDI, Honda prius, and a C6 covette for fun, the v6 hybrid got 34mpg highway, while the C6 pulled an impressive 27mpg highway. Decent article actually.
Black 2002 Honda S2000
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The May issue of R&T has a hige hybrid write-up, including a big test of the Camry, Civic, Escape, and Prius hybrids comparing them to their gas powered counterpars. I'd start there.
Here's the comapro!
S.
Last edited by srivendel; 04-30-2006 at 08:48 AM.
That was a good read. I've been leaning to the Toyota, If I go Hybrid. If I don't go Hybrid I'm thinking about the Accord 4cyl.Originally Posted by srivendel
'08 Copper Red GT PRHT, '06 Accord EXL, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T, '01 V8 Dakota for pulling 2135 Chaparral.
Just don't know if I'd delve into a Hybrid yet. The extra cost to buy them sure don't seem worth the extra $$$$.
Then ya wonder how fast this technology will advance and what a used Hybrid with "old technology" would be worth in the near future.
I'd definably consider leasing it so if the bottom fell out of the market (like used SUV's today) you could get out from under it.
None of the current hybrids on the market make financial sense. None.
Nor is there much of an environmental reason to choose a hybrid over an LEV-II, SULEV, or ULEV car, when you realize the extra environmental costs associated with the manufacture and eventual recycling of those hybrid battery packs.
I've done the math from time to time on hybrids, and I guess it's time to revisit that math to prove my point. I'll use the Accord as an example, comparing the hybrid Accord to both the 4-cylinder EX and the V6 EX models (both automatic):
Hybrid Accord
- Mileage: 25/34 city/highway (assume 29.5 mpg average for 50% city, 50% highway driving for the purpose of this illustration)
- Price: $30,990 MSRP
Accord EX 4 cylinder auto
- Mileage: 24/34 city/highway (29 mpg average)
- Price: $22,450 MSRP
Accord EX V6 auto
- Mileage: 20/29 city/highway (24.5 mpg average)
- Price: $27,300 MSRP
Test assumptions
- Annual miles driven: 15,000 miles per year
- Average fuel cost: $3.00 per gallon
Okay, I'll start with the most obvious comparo first, the 4cyl Accord versus the hybrid Accord. Assuming 15,000 miles per year @ $3.00 per gallon for cost, the annual fuel cost of the 4cyl Accord is $1551.72. The annual fuel cost for the hybrid Accord is $1525.42. The difference in MSRP between the two models is $8540. At that rate of gas savings, it would take you 324.7 YEARS to recoup the difference in MSRP. Or 4.87 million miles, whichever came first.
At $4.00/gallon, it takes a little less time... only 243.5 years, or 3.65 million miles.
At $5.00/gallon, we'll get there even faster - 194.8 years, or a mere 2.92 million miles. You great-great-great-great-great-great grandkids might finally benefit financially from your wise choice to buy hybrid.
Now, how about the hybrid versus the V6 Accord? After all, the V6 Accord is more expensive, and gets worse fuel economy, which should make the hybrid more competitive, right? Well, yes... but it still doesn't make it a great choice. Here are the numbers for the hybrid vs. V6 matchup:
At $3.00/gallon, you can recoup the additional MSRP of the hybrid in 177,797 miles, or 11.9 years. Hey, you might actually live long enough to see the benefit of this choice. But do you tend to keep cars this long?
At $4.00/gallon, the breakeven point is 133,347 miles, or 8.9 years. At $5.00/gallon, the breakeven point is 106,678 miles, or 7.1 years.
Keep in mind that the above calculations are based on fuel costs and MSRP only. The purchase price of the vehicle, the maintenance costs of the vehicle (think a complex hybrid and the associated hardware - inculding the battery pack - will be as cheap to own and maintain as a conventional car over 100,000+ miles?), and any tax incentives for hybrids are not taken into account in the above calculations.
So what have we learned? If fuel economy and saving money is your highest priority, the 4cyl Accord is a no-brainer. Not only does it get similar mileage ot the hybrid Accord, but it costs a lot less. Enough less that you'd never be able to justify stepping "up" to a hybrid Accord on potential fuel savings cost alone.
The decision to buy a hybrid over a V6 Accord is a little murkier. At current gas prices, you'd have to own and drive that Hybrid for a long time (177,797 miles) before you broke even. That's assuming the hybrid doesn't cost you any more to own. That's not a gamble I'd be willing to make, considering the finite lifespan of those rechargeable battery packs and their replacement cost. Oh, and one thing the greenies won't tell you? Over their lifetime those battery packs - just like the ones in your cordless razor or drill - will weaken. Guess what happens to your hybridized fuel economy as the batteries get weaker? That's right, it gets worse.
The only way that a hybrid Accord makes financial sense if if you're willing to keep the car long term, and you're also willing to bet on much higher gas prices on average during the ownership duration. Even then, you have to be willing to bet that the additional maintenance and ownership costs of the hybrid don't erode that margin over 100,000+ miles.
Good luck with that.
Last edited by altiain; 05-01-2006 at 08:26 AM.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
They were talking about them on a leasing show on the radio the other day. They said that they were very expensive to lease, because the leasing companies were not interested in rolling the dice on weather or not the technology would still be in vogue in 3 years.
HHHMMM that POS guy may be on to something.........
Why not just get a diesel and put an extra tank & heater in to run used veggie oils?
It's only a few hundred bucks to add the extra stuff in and you can get the oil for free from many restaurants.
I would think that would be better on the environment than all those caustic batteries and overall cheaper than a hybrid.
RJ
Daily Driver: 2013 Club edition in Pearl White Mica
Lightness? What's that? I drive a PRHT!
sammm said: If you are trying to save money, do some research on how long it takes for one of those to recoup their extra cost.
sammm meant: I really have nothing to add, but I am feeling a littleso why don't you try a search on google first.
If cost is not the issue (and possibly sanity depending on which side of the whole VW ownership line you're sitting on)...
Passat TDI. Comfy. Roomy. Run it on 100% biodiesel from March to October and feel really good about yourself. Don't listen to channelmaniac. Running raw oil isn't worth the mess it leaves behind. Free is just too cheap sometimes. But... you can make your own if you're motivated.
Depending on what goodies you want in the car, you'll be about the same price as an Accord (and have a nicer car). But... you'll have a car that will run just fine without petroleum 8-9 months out of the year. You'll need about 80% diesel in the colder months or you'll have a tank full of silly putty...
Maybe 4 wheels aren't so bad after all... wickett.org
It only goes to show when people can no longer discriminate on the grounds of race, religion, or sexual orientation, they can improvise and still find someone to hate. - Dave Moulton
sammm meant: you have a brain of your own, try to use it.sammm said: If you are trying to save money, do some research on how long it takes for one of those to recoup their extra cost.
sammm meant: I really have nothing to add, but I am feeling a little
He shoots. He scores!!!!!
Maybe 4 wheels aren't so bad after all... wickett.org
It only goes to show when people can no longer discriminate on the grounds of race, religion, or sexual orientation, they can improvise and still find someone to hate. - Dave Moulton
I traded in my 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid for a 2005 Mazdaspeed Miata.
I guess I am not that environmental.
My worst fuel cnsumption rate was 38 MPG and that was mainly stop and go city driving. The best was 53 MPG going pure highway to San Antonio with a tale wind. Generally though, I averaged 42 MPG.
The $2000 price diffence between the EX and the Hybrid was compensated by the Federal Tax Incentive. The car had at least as many ammenities at the EX, less the moonroof and rode better than the EX model. Alloy wheels, albeit ugly, came standard. The automatic climate control was not an option offered on any of the other civic models.
I traded in my Civic 19 months after I bought it and got $16,900 in trade. I think the dealer wanted a show car to lure people in. Gas was $3.25 a gallon at that time.
Still kinda wished I had gotten the RX-8.
05 MX-5 Mazdaspeed #1024 Titanium Gray Mica
You do drive the Miata with the top down, right?
S.
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