Reply With QuoteI'm thinking maybe SCCA needs to restrict all or some of their events to a "Members Only" status. I'll bet the quality of those events would improve dramatically with fewer entrants. Just a thought. Probably never happen.
My momma told me if I couldn't say something nice, I shouldn't say anything at all... but then, I don't always listen to my momma...
The event was not one of the SCCA's banner events, but in fairness, not all of it was completely controllable. The hold-up at the start was apparently caused by computer gremlins. The SCCA's "King Computer Guy" says he's going to get another computer, and opines that storing the computer in the trailer is probably not a good idea (goooood thinkin'). Sloppy corner work is a problem at every event I attend -- including my favorite, NTS2KOC events. I believe that control needs to take firm action if they hear about sloppy corner work, including halting the heat to have someone go over to the corner and speak to the workers. A little peer pressure might help get people back on their toes.
On the other hand:
- Registration was a complete cluster-you-know-what. I'm pre-registered and pre-paid for the year, but still had to wait in line for about 20 minutes just to get the same story I get every event: registration: "That'll be $20". me: "No, I'm pre-paid for the year". registration (for the 7th time this year): "Oh... OK... well, we had problems blah, blah, blah...".
- I pre-paid for the year so that I wouldn't have to get in line at 5:30am to get a good Worker Assignment. But they didn't have the pre-paid's assignments... ah, er, um... assigned, so I got a lousy assignment. This is NOT the Worker Chief's fault -- he was unable to attend, so the assistant WC needed to step up to the challenge. The challenge won... and we lost.
- Nobody likes 3 runs. We had three runs because we didn't want to risk paying a few people a little extra for overtime. Probably worked out to something like $100 or so if they had to work 2 hours longer.Good decision boyz...
- Heat balance was the worst I've ever seen. Heat One (admittedly due in part to computer problems) took 2 hours, while Heat Three -- the one I ran in -- couldn't have lasted more than 30 minutes. I barely had time to get out of the car and check tire pressure before they were sending me back to the starting line. And with only 3 runs, my "fun" was over in about 15 minutes...
There are a lot of reasons why I'm almost certainly not going to run SCCA events next year. Small things... like I still haven't been able to get my 2003 year-end trophy (2nd in Tire Class). Bigger things... like their seeming inability to effectively run an event. And most importantly, their lack of concern and support for new people trying to step up and make a real difference. I tried to step up and help with the computer -- learn all the ins-and-outs, be able to step in and fix problems of all kinds when they arise, etc. -- but was squashed by the person currently in charge of that work. I suppose he thought I was trying to take his job rather than seeing that I was only trying to learn and help.
To be fair, a few people on the SCCA Board -- most notably Phil Osborne -- are strong and vocal supporters of new folks trying to make a difference. But while I believe the current Board is trying to do the right things, they apparently have a number of prima-Donna’s that feel nobody can do things as well as they can. They don’t seem to really want my help (look, I have to feel welcome, or I’m just not going to play). I've got better things to do with my time than try to effect change with that bunch, and I've got plenty of other autocross options... which I will be exercising next year. I’m sure the SCCA Board will cry a river because I’m not there.
We've had 15 to 20 Miatas out at each SCCA event this year (and last year, for that matter). I wonder if anyone would notice if none showed up next year? Probably not... and worse yet, they probably wouldn’t care.
I'm thinking maybe SCCA needs to restrict all or some of their events to a "Members Only" status. I'll bet the quality of those events would improve dramatically with fewer entrants. Just a thought. Probably never happen.
What's left of a '96 Miata with stock clutch.
My car exceeds my driving ability. That's the only possible explanation.
San Francisco region restricts admittance through the gates to even WATCH the autocross to SCCA members. They had a nice turnout. Sadly, I didn't get through the rental car gauntlet fast enough to make it up to SF in time to run... We'll not mention the 82 year old "gentleman" that dropped his bags, shoved me out of the way, and licked the door handle on the GTO...
I don't know guys...I'm not the biggest SCCA fan but actually had a good time at this one. Maybe it was just the nice clean surface and a course that worked well with the S2000. It just seems like almost all of the problems mentioned above could fixed by limiting the enrollment to ~150 pre-registered drivers. This would ensure 4 runs, cut out some of the riff-raff noobies who show up the day of and can't get with the program, shorten all respective lines, and clean up corner working a bit. As for the BOD bit. You will never get a group of people that large who all think the same...it's all part of the game that Tom will have to manage. If he can't do this then a new person should step up to the plate.
FWIW, I found out at the last event that if you registered for the year there is NO need to check-in at registration. You are already on the list for the year. If you don't show up at an event you will show as DNS. Just get your work assignment, sign the waiver, and be done.
David Smart
Mazda MX5 Club - STR 194
Yep, it's the Work Assignment thing that took so long -- even for us "Pre-Regs". What's the benefit to pre-paying/pre-registering if I have to stand in line to get a crappy work assignment? Yes, I know... I could have simply pushed my way to the front of the line. But that's pretty rude, and won't sit well with everyone standing in line.Originally Posted by Clovis
And one other thing about not having to go to Registration if you've pre-paid for the year... I go there just to make sure they know I'm there, AND to see if after 7 events they finally realize that I have pre-paid.
Yeah, I'd agree with you on that one. I like the Bus Lot, and did pretty well at both Bus Lot events. The surface is kind to tires, and I enjoyed the course -- kept me very busy!
Look, nothing is perfect... and nothing is all bad. It just seems like I (and others?) take a beating at every SCCA event. Equipe Rapide events -- which have nearly as many people -- seem to run alot smoother (although they have their "opportunities for improvement" too). I come away from most SCCA events feeling drained and neutral (at best) about the day. I come away from ER and NTS2KOC events feeling like I had a lot of fun!
I don't envy Tom Ramey and his job. I offered to help. I was not made to feel welcome (OK, so perhaps I'm too thin-skinned). I don't need to fight battles just to try and help -- so I won't. But I don't want to hear anyone on the SCCA BoD complain about people not stepping up to help...
And if this just sounds like "sour grapes" from me, ask tailchaser and/or altiain to give their perspectives. I don't think either of them are planning to take their positions with the SCCA next year (but I could be mistaken).
Some of my responses are in bold within the quoted text since I am not that familiar with this posting software.
Oh and one more thing. ER does not run the same size events. Their results are inflated due to the Rapide pax. In terms of actual numbers of individual drivers they seem to run in the 120 or so range, with a fair number effectively double counted due to the pax competition.My momma told me if I couldn't say something nice, I shouldn't say anything at all... but then, I don't always listen to my momma...
Constructive criticism is helpful.
The event was not one of the SCCA's banner events, but in fairness, not all of it was completely controllable. The hold-up at the start was apparently caused by computer gremlins. The SCCA's "King Computer Guy" says he's going to get another computer, and opines that storing the computer in the trailer is probably not a good idea (goooood thinkin').
Sloppy corner work is a problem at every event I attend -- including my favorite, NTS2KOC events. I believe that control needs to take firm action if they hear about sloppy corner work, including halting the heat to have someone go over to the corner and speak to the workers. A little peer pressure might help get people back on their toes.
Would you be interested in helping do a corner work demo at the drivers meeting. I have done them in the past, but since I tend to be long winded Peter has done the last two, and erred a bit on the other side. Personally, I think everyone should hear the cornerwork lecture everytime. Repetition is the Mother of learning (Russian proverb)
On the other hand:
- Registration was a complete cluster-you-know-what. I'm pre-registered and pre-paid for the year, but still had to wait in line for about 20 minutes just to get the same story I get every event: registration: "That'll be $20". me: "No, I'm pre-paid for the year". registration (for the 7th time this year): "Oh... OK... well, we had problems blah, blah, blah...".
The annual prepaids have been kind of screwed up all along. I don't believe it was until after the third event Lauren and I had a list of who was prepaid. It is also a bit difficult to plan when you have a bunch of prepaids and online registration folks who may or may not show.
- I pre-paid for the year so that I wouldn't have to get in line at 5:30am to get a good Worker Assignment. But they didn't have the pre-paid's assignments... ah, er, um... assigned, so I got a lousy assignment. This is NOT the Worker Chief's fault -- he was unable to attend, so the assistant WC needed to step up to the challenge. The challenge won... and we lost.
Identify yourself as an annual prepaid when you come up to worker assignment, and I would accomodate. Lauren may recognize you, but I don't.
- Nobody likes 3 runs. We had three runs because we didn't want to risk paying a few people a little extra for overtime. Probably worked out to something like $100 or so if they had to work 2 hours longer.
- Heat balance was the worst I've ever seen. Heat One (admittedly due in part to computer problems) took 2 hours, while Heat Three -- the one I ran in -- couldn't have lasted more than 30 minutes. I barely had time to get out of the car and check tire pressure before they were sending me back to the starting line. And with only 3 runs, my "fun" was over in about 15 minutes...
Heat balance was intentional, though a bit skewed more than my target. Everyone wants to work first heat since its cooler out, to balance out the desireablity of the heats, as well as have folks out shorter times in the heat of the day the first two heats are setup to be longer than the last two heats
There are a lot of reasons why I'm almost certainly not going to run SCCA events next year. Small things... like I still haven't been able to get my 2003 year-end trophy (2nd in Tire Class). Bigger things... like their seeming inability to effectively run an event. And most importantly, their lack of concern and support for new people trying to step up and make a real difference. I tried to step up and help with the computer -- learn all the ins-and-outs, be able to step in and fix problems of all kinds when they arise, etc. -- but was squashed by the person currently in charge of that work. I suppose he thought I was trying to take his job rather than seeing that I was only trying to learn and help.
To be fair, a few people on the SCCA Board -- most notably Phil Osborne -- are strong and vocal supporters of new folks trying to make a difference. But while I believe the current Board is trying to do the right things, they apparently have a number of prima-Donna’s that feel nobody can do things as well as they can. They don’t seem to really want my help (look, I have to feel welcome, or I’m just not going to play). I've got better things to do with my time than try to effect change with that bunch, and I've got plenty of other autocross options... which I will be exercising next year. I’m sure the SCCA Board will cry a river because I’m not there.
We've had 15 to 20 Miatas out at each SCCA event this year (and last year, for that matter). I wonder if anyone would notice if none showed up next year? Probably not... and worse yet, they probably wouldn’t care.
Yes, SCCA events have had some issues this year. We have the transition to a new system. And there is a bit of room for improvement. Help us get this right.
Regards
John Stankus
Asst. Worker Chief
FS 26
[email protected]
Sorry John... that was uncalled for. You did a good job in a tough situation. I was disappointed that you were unable to "honor" the pre-paid's pre-set work assignments, but I didn't (really) mind working 4th heat.
The problem with the line at Work Check-in wasn't just at this event -- it's every event. We [Miata pilots] get a little lucky since we know Lauren (so I don't feel as bad just going to him saying "I'm here"), but the fact that there is massive confusion checking in hasn't changed. Jumping to the front of a line of 50 people is going to get a pile of people spittin' mad... that's why I waited my turn like a good boy
And that's fair comment about ER events really being only about 120 or so people. Perhaps that tells us that we simply can't handle 200+ entrants, and should begin limiting the SCCA events to no more than 150.
As for corner work, I don't think doing anything differently in the Driver's Meeting will help. Unfortunately, I think it's time to start embarassing people while they are "working". People don't listen at the Driver's meeting, and they are often so oblivous on course that they don't even know they are causing a problem. But experienced folks know when they are a problem, and maybe it's time to start calling attention to this right then and there. Will it piss some folks off? Yep, I'm sure it will. They can take their toys and go home. We'll be left with the better course workers, and fewer problems. You wouldn't want me to give "The Speech"... I'd piss everyone off (shotty corner work is a real pet peeve of mine...).
Hey, that's my 2cents. I was all fired up to be a big help at SCCA events, but have just lost heart over the last 3 months. I tried a Board Meeting, and made some suggestions on the SCCA mailing list, but just didn't get the "warm and fuzzy" responses I -- as a new guy trying to help -- needed. I don't want to walk into a battle; I've got enough of those (ask the folks on this board -- I'm already tilting at enough windmills).
Rich Keesecker
'99 Miata 4CS
Computer Worker who takes work assignments very seriously
Thanks Rich,
I did feel bad about holding up registration. Probably should have made two lines to worker assignment desk, one for prepaids, one for everyone else. I was planning on getting the prepaids onto the list on Saturday, but my in-laws unexpectedly showed up and didn't get the time I needed to get my act together. Lauren has an advantage too, in that he knows the folks here a bit better than I.
One of the big issues that I have is getting an accurate accounting of prepaids and online registers. I have a vague list of prepaids cobbled together from snippets from the registration guy. I could use some suggestions here on how to make this work smoother. One thought is that to have your prepaid work assignment you need to confirm your attendence the week prior to the event via email (or phone if unconnected). I don't have emails for the prepaid folks, so I try to put out a general call to tell me if you won't be there, but that is not always the most effective.
I have also been thinking about trying to put together an operations manual, set down procedures for how to run the event. So we can make sure we don't repeat problems event after event (like we often do now). I would appreciate your (and everyone's) input on something like that.
Regards
John
It may be helpful to have the person on corner with the radio be a bulldog as well as a non-novice. There are several times that I have had to get on to workers at my corner for just standing around talking and not watching our part of the course.
Last year I had novices at Pennington wanting to run over to McDonalds and get ice cream cones.
Unfortunately, it's not just the Novices that were a problem last Sunday. Like I mentioned in my previous postl, one of the workers on the problem corner in Heat 2 is the current National Champion in FSAE. I don't know if he was busy wowing his co-workers with tales from Topeka or what, but lugnutjon and I had to draw their attention to a downed cone near the finish - by yelling from 75 yards away beyond the fence line - more than once. That's ridiculous.It may be helpful to have the person on corner with the radio be a bulldog as well as a non-novice. There are several times that I have had to get on to workers at my corner for just standing around talking and not watching our part of the course.
Last year I had novices at Pennington wanting to run over to McDonalds and get ice cream cones.
Plus, even if you take the corner worker problem away, we still have organizational problems to overcome in the trailer. To top it off, getting only four runs for a day's effort is bad enough, but only getting three runs is downright criminal. I honestly don't know what the answer is. I wish I did, because I used to enjoy Texas Region SCCA events.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
ER may not have the same amount of attendees but they are putting more cars on a course that the SCCA.
ER Event with 120 cars x 6 runs = 720 cars on course in a day
SCCA with 220 cars x 3 runs = 660 car on course in a day
So actually you guys are putting less cars on course at an event than ER.
Don't. You didn't hold up registration... that process has been in place pretty much from the beginning.
I must say that I like your idea about having pre-reg people verify that they will be at an event, so that the Worker Chief can prepare something solid in advance. I register for each event on-line, and delete myself if I'm not going to make an event... perhaps the other pre-regs can be encouraged to do the same.
What John said about the Heat balance does make some sense and is not a bad idea to have the 1st heat workers work a bit longer in the relatively cooler temperatures. I'm certainly not opposed to that. I would probably suggest taking one or two (or 3) classes out of 1st heat just to make the remaining heats a little longer. I realize that getting the correct ballance of cars per heat is super difficult, though.
What's left of a '96 Miata with stock clutch.
My car exceeds my driving ability. That's the only possible explanation.
Spoken like someone who isn't signed up for the year to work first heat.
First heat normally gets the pleasure of the kid carts, which adds to time on course. How hard is it to keep statistical data on the classes and balance the heats accordingly. You could review this year & last year’s results to get a better picture of the class loads. Then you could better balance the heats for next season. Since you know how much some folks like change.
Wonder if it wouldn't be a bad ideal to send the kids out first so the folks in the trailer could fine-tune the timing equipment. I'm sure the kids wouldn't mind if a couple of reruns were issued while the trailer tweaks the setup.
It seems to me the amount of cars & drivers per event is the core problem with our regional SCCA today. Why not cap entries (at 150 or whatever seems reasonable) until some of the others issues are ironed out. With cooler weather upon us, I would think the number of entries (and those who actually show up) is going to increase. YEventMV.
Yeah, but some of those re-runs would take 4 minutes!
Just kidding... I'm actually in favor of the kid karts, since everyone has to start somewhere. I think it's very cool to get them started early -- think how good some of them will be in cars by the time they are driving age? I would like the Kid Karts bit to be run better (I'm not trying to beat up Eddie and Janice H, who work very hard at this) -- lack of clear, readable numbers being my BIGGEST peeve -- but I'm still a supporter. Maybe it's because I have a couple of kids myself
POS Racing wrote:
"Spoken like someone who isn't signed up for the year to work first heat. "
First heat Starter all season (until last Sunday).
What's left of a '96 Miata with stock clutch.
My car exceeds my driving ability. That's the only possible explanation.
Oh yea!
Hey quit trying to get us extra long work assignment! :P
Would you like a copy of the spreadsheet with the statistics on classes that are used for setting the run order? I'll be happy to send it to you.Spoken like someone who isn't signed up for the year to work first heat.
First heat normally gets the pleasure of the kid carts, which adds to time on course. How hard is it to keep statistical data on the classes and balance the heats accordingly. You could review this year & last year’s results to get a better picture of the class loads. Then you could better balance the heats for next season. Since you know how much some folks like change.
The balance was a bit more front loaded than I planned. I think it was of the order (60,55,40,40) I'll make a better count tonight.
One of the problems is that the Mod and Prepared cars (or at least John Garcia) asked to have all mod and prepared cars in one heat. Which is fine on one level, but those classes tend to have the widest swing in attendance. Originally, I would distribute them out to minimize the large swing effect on any specific heat. Now I have to deal with the fluctuations there.
As for the kids karts, that has been a learning experience throughout the year. Eddie and Janis asked for them to be placed between 1st and 2nd heat. The intent is to do a hot swap in the middle of the kid karts since they don't usually hit cones. Granted at the last event when I walked up to the trailer to get my notes in order just as the kids karts started, all the second heat folks started reporting in. A bit Pavlovian, I suppose.
John
Asst Worker guy
I worked SCCA registration last year, and I can point to several things that cause a slowdown.
1. People that do not know what class they are running
2. People that stand in the wrong line in registration
3. One list of car numbers that is being maintained by someone that is
also registering entrants
4. Multiple drivers driving the same car that are not sure of what number
they want to run
5. Lost registration cards
6. "What numbers are available?"
7. "I'm paying for my buddy too, but he is in the other line."
8. "My buddy paid for me, but he was in the other line."
There are some other things as well, but these are the ones that stick out in my mind the most.
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