2011 pax

[Robert]

The new numbers are out

http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/

The good news GS gets harder, the bad news HS gets a lot softer and ES gets harder (good news for me)

[sammm]

CS & ES got softer.

CS - 2010 - .840
2011 - .833

ES - 2010 - .829
2011 - .825

[Robert]

You wish. All of stock classes got softer, but ES less so.

edit
All of the classes got softer except AM, EM and FSAE. Average change -.006

[sammm]

You wish. All of stock classes got softer, but ES less so.

Autocross is stupid. I quit.

[OZMDD]

Yea! STR got a break, maybe we can hang with the STS cars now! :)

[altiain]

I'm still not sure why ST is lower than STX, considering that STX was won by an ST car this year. Stupid Civics.

[Robert]

I'm still not sure why ST is lower than STX, considering that STX was won by an ST car this year. Stupid Civics.

Because you can run an ST Civic with more mods in STX

[Robert]

Copied from another forum

Here's another list showing % change YOY.

Average % change is (0.71%) for all classes and (0.73%) when you remove the top/bottom 2 classes (remove largest outliers).

Class % Change
FJC (2.20%)
SMF (1.72%)
GP (1.53%)
AS (1.52%)
HS (1.49%)
FS (1.19%)
EP (1.15%)
ASP (1.03%)
CM (0.98%)
DS (0.97%)
FJB (0.96%)
BS (0.94%)
SM (0.91%)
SSM (0.91%)
DM (0.88%)
CS (0.83%)
DP (0.80%)
F125 (0.73%)
BM (0.73%)
STX (0.72%)
STR (0.71%)
STU (0.71%)
ESP (0.70%)
BSP (0.69%)
CP (0.69%)
DSP (0.59%)
CSP (0.58%)
BP (0.57%)
ST (0.49%)
ES (0.48%)
FP (0.46%)
FM (0.44%)
GS (0.37%)
STS (0.36%)
FSP (0.36%)
SS (0.35%)
FJA (0.35%)
XP (0.34%)
EM 0.33%
FSAE 2.19%

[ken o]

I'm buying an HS car.

[POS Racing]

Autocross is stupid. I quit.

+1!

[ken o]

Looking at my M3. I can run in STU or BSP.
In BSP on Hoosier A6s on a 60 second course Hoosiers are only 1.26 seconds faster according to PAX? NO!
I ran Hoosiers at the BMW event and was 2.7 ahead of Thomas, 1.3 ahead of Kenny, 2.6 of Jim.
I don't think the ST? PAX is accurate with R-Comp classes.

[jrj512]

I'm buying an HS car.

You already did. Steal your son's car.

[altiain]

Because you can run an ST Civic with more mods in STX

Really the only thing you can do in STX that you can't do in ST is move up to 15x8/9" wheels and add a diff. Yet every time someone tries this, they don't go any faster.

The car that won STX this year was an ST car in ST trim. ST was faster than STX at 6 out of 8 National Tours this year*. I don't care that ST is "supposed to be" a slower class than STX - it isn't. The Civics are 700+ pounds lighter than anything else in the class, and they have a significantly better tire/weight ratio than anything else in class, which really matters when you're dealing with street tires.

Oh well. At least the '12 re-org will stop them from cherry picking STX. Hopefully after the re-org we can get the PAX numbers right as well.

• Dixie – ST - 115.207, STX - 115.433
• Texas – ST - 168.127, STX - 169.936
• San Diego – ST - 95.725, STX – 96.361
• Wendover – ST – 103.433, STX – 105.244
• Blytheville – ST – 110.344, STX – 108.800 STX finally wins one!
• Peru – ST – 99.374, STX – 100.822
• Finger Lakes – ST – 162.498, STX – 162.421  STX wins again… by .077 seconds
• Packwood – ST – 105.934, STX – 107.089
• Nationals – ST – 125.156, STX – 124.804  STX wins again… except it’s won by an ST car. The fastest “real” STX car is 125.645, behind the ST winner
• *Blytheville #2 – ST – 113.440, STX – 106.044 (I’m not counting this one, since the sole ST entrant was more than seven seconds off the pace. Not a legitimate data point imho)

[Robert]

You just need to put 6in wide wheels and an open diff in the RX8

With the current classing STX has to have a harder PAX than ST.

I agree that some of the numbers are strange when you look at stock vs. ST, vs. SP

edit

looking at the rules make that 7.5 wheels with 225 tires.

[Davidss]

I don't care that ST is "supposed to be" a slower class than STX - it isn't.

The fact is Rick Ruth tends to look at is what the class "should be" running and STX has not lived up to it's potential. I think STXs pax is right where it needs to be.

(the EF civics) have a significantly better tire/weight ratio than anything else in class, which really matters when you're dealing with street tires.

To start with there really isn't a big difference:
BMW/RX8 2750lbs on 265mm tires = 2.59lbs per mm
EF Civic 1950lbs on 195mm tires = 2.50lbs per mm

But even then there are cars in STX that have much better tire/weight than the EF civic:
Integra Type R 2350lbs on 245 tires = 2.39lbs per mm
240SX 2400lbs on 265mm tires = 2.26lbs per mm

BMWs and RX8s make great daily drivers/weekend racers but even after the reorg they still won't be the cars to have IMHO.

Hopefully after the re-org we can get the PAX numbers right as well.

Don't get your hopes up. For 6 years STS (formerly STS2) had a harder pax even though it was ALWAYS slower than ST (formerly STS). Rick Ruth kept the PAX at the class' potential and it took STS 6 years to catch up...