Schools for IT?

[ken o]

My son will be a senior next year so we are looking into different colleges. His plan is to major in Computer Science in programming or a broader IT major. This summer he will try to complete his A+, Network+, and Security+ certifications and might take a programming class at CCCC, if he can.

His first year might be live at home. We will be looking at school in the DFW area. But will not rule out living away. His grades are good, not great but his SAT/ACT scores are very high.

Any recommendations for schools?

[Rob®]

I don't know how it rates compared to other schools for Computer Science, but about 90% of all the kids in my generic engineering classes at UNT were all CS majors of some sort. So at the very least UNT accepts a ton of kids to their programs. That could be good or bad, but I would say it means he'd definitely get in. Oddly enough, the CS majors are all fresh out of high school aged kids, and most of the electrical and mechanical engineering majors are late-20s or over.

I know a bunch of people that were CS majors of sorts at Full Sail when I went to UCF. I know Full Sail used to be primarily computer animation and stuff like that, but I am pretty sure they do more general programming now too. That area of Florida is horrible though.

Oh, from my experience, try to get him to take most of his pre-reqs at a community college. Get a course list of what he needs from whatever school he decides on, then knock out as much of the pre-reqs as he can at a much cheaper tuition rate (unless he gets grants, then whatever).

[sammm]

Before you drop a load of money, you might send him to junior/community college first. I started there and most of my computer science
credits transferred.

[goofygrin]

(CS grad here)

All those certs? Nothing to do with CS. CS is just about 100% theory (how to make an OS, compiler, etc.) and very, very, very little practical knowledge. MIS degrees (more like business + access, vb and excel) are more practical, but not nearly enough to make someone useful in the workforce.

College is NOT vocational school.

Locally, UTD has a pretty well ranked CS and Engineering program. That's where I finished up my degree. One of my business partners got his degree there too (CS). When I was wrapping it up they started the software engineering degree program (where you actually learn theory and some practical about actually building software). CCCCD's computer stuff is hit or miss. I taught continuing education at CCCCD and the feedback I got from students (most of the time) was that what I taught was better/more in depth/useful than what other instructors were teaching.

I started at a large state school and freshman level CS classes were typically 2-500 people in a big lecture hall with a grad student to help you. It was NOT conducive to actually learning anything and there was a lot of frustration.

I learned more useful information in my internships (where I actually was on a team and writing software) than I did in 6 years of college (obviously I didn't go full time, took semesters off, etc.).

[goofygrin]

Oh... and don't send them to DeVry. Shudder.

[AlanP1964]

Before you drop a load of money, you might send him to junior/community college first. I started there and most of my computer science
credits transferred.

I think this is a plan that a lot of kids would benefit from. I graduated from a small rural high school, so it's probably different for a kid who graduates with 800 other kids or so. But, I know for me it was easier transitioning from a school where I graduated with 20 other numbskulls to a junior college and then on to a big school after two years. It's less expensive and the credits typically transfer.

[Rob®]

LOL! My girlfriend went to DeVry almost a decade ago. She has been working at Pearson (the publisher) for the last 5 years or so, doing absolutely nothing with computers or IT at all. Somehow she got her DeVry "schooling" for free though, so it wasn't a total waste.

I got all my certs (various Cisco, A+, Microsoft nonsense) from a vocational school almost a decade ago too. That education has served me very well, but having an actual degree would have been much more helpful in the long run. So although I think he'd learn more useful stuff in a vocational type of school, I think a real college education is the better longterm idea.

Wifey's best friend's husband is a programmer out in California and makes very good money for just graduating. I could see where he went, but I know it's in southern Cali somewhere.

[POS Racing]

Good stuff here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_school

[goofygrin]

LOL! My girlfriend went to DeVry almost a decade ago. She has been working at Pearson (the publisher) for the last 5 years or so, doing absolutely nothing with computers or IT at all. Somehow she got her DeVry "schooling" for free though, so it wasn't a total waste.

I got all my certs (various Cisco, A+, Microsoft nonsense) from a vocational school almost a decade ago too. That education has served me very well, but having an actual degree would have been much more helpful in the long run. So although I think he'd learn more useful stuff in a vocational type of school, I think a real college education is the better longterm idea.

Wifey's best friend's husband is a programmer out in California and makes very good money for just graduating. I could see where he went, but I know it's in southern Cali somewhere.

I think the days of just having a degree from most universities means you get a very good paying job are long gone unfortunately. Unfortunately there are lots of people with real experience looking for work and they're at the point where they're stealing jobs from the people fresh out of college :-/

Then you get into this stupid loop of "We want someone with experience only" and you don't have any but you can't get any because noone will give you a job. I'm glad that I'm not looking right now (but I hate that I'm having to sift through mounds and mounds of resumes).

[Rob®]

Unfortunately there are lots of people with real experience looking for work and they're at the point where they're stealing jobs from the people fresh out of college :-/

See, from my recent experience I've seen the exact opposite. I've been caught in the "we want experience only...but with any degree" hell a few times already. I have the experience, but most employers want a degree of any sort the last few years (from what I've encountered) - be it gym, English, chewing gum, whatever. The sad thing that I've noticed is that they want the experience, but don't want to pay the salaries that go along with actual field skills. The solution, it seems, is to hire fresh out of school kids, pay them a bit less, and hope that they gain experience quickly. My father got hit with that one hard (30+ years of telecom management/sales experience but not a single college credit). Luckily I have more than a bachelor's worth of credits, just not in a degree form, so some companies overlooked the lack of actual paper. BUT, this is my experience in the telecom/IT fields, so it could very well be the exact opposite for CS things.

And I agree: I'm glad I'm not looking right now. And hopefully things will be a bit easier once I'm done with my field-changing degree.

[Titus]

I have an associates degree in Electronics Technologies from a school in California called Heald Institute of Technology. I am not sure how that compares to DeVry, but it's major competitor out there was ITT. The program I was in had 5 classes a quarter, 5 nights a week for 6 quarters. Each Qtr consisted of 1 gen ed, 1 Computer Lecture, 1 computer lab, 1 electronics lecture, and 1 electronics lab. All of the gen ed classes were applicable to the degree as well, as I recall the math class was all about binary and hexadecimal. The schooling gave me a great base of knowledge that I immediately used in the work place, but I don't think that was it's biggest value. The big thing was interviews. Many companies came to the school, gave a presentation on their job offerings, and then asked for resumes. They would then come back a few weeks later and hold interviews on campus. I managed to get an internship through this process with Bank of America, where I still work for today, 14 years later. I had other classmates that got on with other Fortune 500 companies including Intel, Schlumberger, and others. About 25% of the students got 4.0s, and these were the ones that got these jobs. 50% of the students dropped out before completing the program. The remaining 25% finished the program but only did the minimum to get by. Most of those guys ended up working at places like Frys, selling or repairing computers for $10/hr.

[Jiggerachi]

Oddly enough, the CS majors are all fresh out of high school aged kids, and most of the electrical and mechanical engineering majors are late-20s or over.

This makes me feel a little better about my situation, heh.

From what I know attending DCCCD for some time now I know they work with UTD and have some associates degree plans with emphasis on a ton of majors including Mechanical Engineering or CS. From what I hear they are a straight shot into UTD for your JR year. This is looking like a good idea to me.

I just got promoted to a Jr Programmer Analyst at my company, and i'm taking a few VB classes through DCCCD, and they have a TON of these vocational type classes, good to get your feet wet while providing some good knowledge, also some can be applied to one of their Associate in Sciences degrees.

When I applied for this position at work I quickly realized the scope of my problem...9 years at this company, in various depts over the years, I know most of the systems here, familiar with our SQL databases, but I had done no coding (although I understand structured logic). I have a ton of credits, great GPA, but no paper. I did very well in the interviews and was reccommended highly for the position by my new boss among others, but it was still a close call and I got pretty much screwed out of any bump in salary. I'm still very happy the way it worked out, but i'm sure things would have been different if I had a degree of some sort. Which is why I'm looking into DCCCDs associate programs, not a bachelors by any means, but better than 60+ credits with a 3.9GPA just sitting there.

[luis]

i have a b.s. in psych, but i'm a software developer. go figure.

[tailchaser]

Meanwhile, I've spent the last 20 years trying to get OUT of a career in IT...

[sxk122]

Just as far as schools go here was my experience. I don't know what your son's financial and academic situation is, but it sounds similar to mine.

I paid my own way through school. Coming out of Highland Park, even though I had good SAT scores, my class rank was near the 50% mark. Combining that with the fact that I am a white male from a middle class family with no outstanding athletic or intellectual attributes I was screwed as far as scholarship opportunities go. I attended Richland Junior college to get my core classes out of the way cheaply, and transferred to UTDallas for my bachelors. UTD was (is?) more of a commuter school in my opinion, and most of my business classes had a wide age range of students which I think added an element to the classes.

I will also point out that coming out of Highland Park, Richland was a breeze, and the majority of classes at UTD weren't much more difficult. It was more of a test of being able to keep yourself on track with minimal professor input, as opposed to purely difficult academics. My best friend went to Yale and had similar thoughts, so if your son is coming out of a competitive high school (which I assume he is with high SAT/ low class rank) I imagine the same will hold true.


One caveat-- The counseling department at UTD is a bit lacking in my opinion, and their poor advice causes some issues with my degree plan and my sisters (she was there for molecular biology). If you do attend, independently verify your degree plan and if you intend to do post graduate work, make sure you have all those pre-rec's too.

[ken o]

great feedback. thanks! keep them coming.

[goofygrin]

One caveat-- The counseling department at UTD is a bit lacking in my opinion, and their poor advice causes some issues with my degree plan and my sisters (she was there for molecular biology). If you do attend, independently verify your degree plan and if you intend to do post graduate work, make sure you have all those pre-rec's too.

This is my experience as well. My last semester I had to take classes @ UTD AND CCCCD (Freshman comp II) because of issues on UTDs side (I actually took CLEP tests when I first started college to get out of a bunch of math, Spanish, and english, but apparently UTD didn't accept them when it came time to graduate).

If he's not in AP classes, you might have him start studying for/taking CLEP tests. Those allow him to get college credit without the AP or IB (which is what I did) BS and without taking the freshman level class.

Freshman level classes @ CCCCD, in my experience, had much smaller class sizes than at OSU/UTD. The professors were there because they wanted to be there, not because they couldn't hack it somewhere else. My uncle is a tenured professor @ OSU and he confirms my suspicions that big colleges do not allow the teachers that want to simply teach to do that... whereas jucos do (although I think CCCCD has some 4 year programs now).

[Rob®]

Meanwhile, I've spent the last 20 years trying to get OUT of a career in IT...

Same here. Well, not 20 years, but 10. I didn't think "tell him to consider a different field" was good advice though. :)

[motorollow]

I can give you a ton of advice since I currently have two kids at Texas A&M. One is a freshman and the other is a junior. Feel free to contact me.

The best thing to do now is to send him away for the summer. He needs to learn to be on his own before going to college.

[POS Racing]

IT is just a fad!

Found this on another forum..... Wow! Just WOW!