Reply With QuoteThose who can - work
Those who can while walking on water - teach.
We pay for the wrong abilities and reward the wrong attitudes, then we wonder what's wrong with the kids today.
You think your life is tough?
My dear wife forwarded this to me the other day. I found it funny, but only because it really is the truth. So please take a moment and read it, and think about teachers and teacher salaries (Melissa has receipts for over $700 of out-of-pocket purchases she's made for her classroom over the last five months, money we'll never get reimbursed for, but things she had to have for her students regardless... and she works in one of the "good" districts when it comes to supplies) this fall when you go to the polls.
Thanks for reading. I'll get down off my soapbox now.From the United Educators Association
Monday, May 10, 2004
This late in the school year we sometimes began to become a little silly. Below you will find a story called Survivor: Classroom. This is going around the Internet so the source is unknown but it's a great reminder of the complexity of one of our most challenging issues.
Six Texas legislators will be dropped in an elementary school classroom for 6 weeks. Each legislator will be provided with a copy of his/her school district's curriculum, and classes ranging from 22 to 35 students-depending on the grade level. Each class will have five learning-disabled children, three with A.D.D., one gifted child, and two who speak limited English. Three will be labeled with severe behavior problems.
Each legislator must complete lesson plans at least 3 days in advance with annotations for curriculum objectives and modify, organize, or create materials accordingly. They will be required to teach students, handle misconduct, implement technology, document attendance, write referrals, correct homework, make bulletin boards, compute grades, complete report cards, document benchmarks, communicate with parents, and arrange parent conferences. They must also supervise recess and monitor the hallways.
In addition, they will complete drills for fire, tornados, and shooting attacks. They must attend workshops, (at least 50 hours a year to retain their teaching certificate), faculty meetings, and curriculum development meetings. They must also tutor those students who are behind and strive to get their 2 non-English speaking children proficient enough to take various state tests. If they are sick or having a bad day they must not let it show. Each day they must incorporate reading, writing, math, science, and social studies into the program. They must maintain discipline and provide an educationally stimulating environment at all times.
The legislators will only have access to the golf course on the weekends, but on their new salary they will not be able to afford it anyway. There will be no access to vendors who want to take them to lunch, and lunch will be limited to 30 minutes. On days when they do not have recess duty, the legislators will be permitted to use the staff restroom as long as another survival candidate is supervising their class.
The legislator must remember to be careful not to touch a student, fail a student, upset a student, because the student's parent might go to the principal who may or may not support the legislators.
If the copier is operable, they may make copies of necessary materials at this time. If it does not work, they can use their own money to make copies for the class at Kinko's. Regardless, the legislators might have to buy their own paper.
The legislators must continually advance their education on their own time and pay for this advanced training themselves. This can be accomplished by moonlighting, (a second job), or marrying someone with money.
The winner will be allowed to return to his or her job as a member of the Texas Legislature. Their next year's salary will depend on not how hard they worked, but how their students do on the TAKS test.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Those who can - work
Those who can while walking on water - teach.
We pay for the wrong abilities and reward the wrong attitudes, then we wonder what's wrong with the kids today.
So Altiain what do you want us to do when we go to the polls?
How about voting for a big fat property tax increase, or even a state income tax! You'll be out more than $700.00 in taxes a year if you don't look at the big picture!
A lot of tax payers (like you) don't have any kids in the system but you still pay school taxes every year! Is that fair???
I don't have any kids, but if higher taxes and better equipped teachers can teach the next generation what their lazy A moms and dads should be teaching them, I'm all for it.Originally Posted by POS Racing
Otherwise your elected officials will keep spending all they can on welfare, drug rehab, new prisons, etc. without end.
Until teachers get guns and 00 licenses, we gotta keep trying to improve the quality of the students we produce.
Paid for by the onething for Benevolent Ruler committee
Truth be told, POS, I'd be more than willing to pay a property tax increase and/or a state income tax if that money went to raise the salaries of public employees like teachers, firefighters, police officers, etc.
Might I end up paying more in additional taxes than I would potentially "save" on what Melissa spends out of pocket on her student s every year? Certainly. I'm not looking at this issue from a point of personal gain or loss, I'm trying to look at it from the "big picture point of view" - the view on what best benefits society as a whole, not me as an individual.
I've felt like teachers were underpaid since long before I even met Melissa. Of course, being married to a teacher has made it even more plain to me - I had never considered that teachers had to reach into their own pockets in order to supply their students with necessary items, but now I realize that it's more the norm than the exception. They shouldn't have to.
As for paying property taxes to support public shools even though I don't have any children - I don't have a problem with it. In fact, I'd like to see a secondary education system in this country much like it was in Britain when my parents were growing up, where those in the top 10% of their class in secondary school had their university education completely funded by the state. Since my father came from a very poor family, he would never have been able to afford to go to university had the state not paid for it 100%. That small investment made by the government 40 years ago has more than paid for itself in increased government revenue from taxes, both in Britain (where my parents owned the houses both sets of my grandparents lived in and paid the taxes on those properties accordingly), and here in the states. My father's work contributes more to the GDP than it would have had he never received an education, making this country more productive and raising the standard of living incrememntally for everyone. It also gave me the opportunity to do many things I doubt I would have been able to do if I'd grown up as a coal miner's son in a poor rural town in northern Scotland, which is likely where I would be had the state not paid for my father's education. So yeah, I've seen the "trickle down" effects of what spending on education can bring. In my father's case, it raised the standard of living for him, his wife, his parents, his in-laws, his son, and his daughter-in-law... and we haven't even had children yet. When we do, you can bet that they'll also indirectly benefit from it.
In other words, the cost of one university education forty years ago has raised eight people out of potential poverty so far, and that gift will continue to grow in scope as our family tree grows. Much like an investment in money grows steadily over time, an investment in people does too.
So yes, to make a long story short, I do support increased public spending on the American education system, at the primary, secondary, and university levels. Even if I don't currently have any children at all. I've seen firsthand what the dividend can be from a small investment in education, and I think it's high time we in this country worked a little harder at it.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Why is this our responsibility?I don't have any kids, but if higher taxes and better equipped teachers can teach the next generation what their lazy A moms and dads should be teaching them, I'm all for it.
My wife and I work very hard to furnish our kid with the best education we can get her! As many of you know she attends a private school and I can attest that my out of pocket expenses are pretty good every school year. But we do this in the hopes that she will have a leg up on he slack jawed contemporaries. Plus I continue to pay the taxes to make sure that the kids with the lazy moms and dads children get the education that they are entitled to receive.
How about less taxes and more personal responsibly!
Unfortunately, the problem isn't with what the taxpayers are paying it is with what is being done with the money that is being collected. As with the "State Lottery" that money was suppose to be for education and as we all know none of that money is being spent on education. Our problem is the people who are in power have all their causes that they need to support so most of the money goes to what ever they want. And unfortunately even if new people are elected the money will never be spent where it should be because no one will stand for it.
Because we live in a society where wealth is divided among the many as opposed to being accumulated by a few. Granted we have our economic classes but for the most part, laws and taxes are in place to give everyone a shot at success.Why is this our responsibility?
My wife and I work very hard to furnish our kid with the best education we can get her! As many of you know she attends a private school and I can attest that my out of pocket expenses are pretty good every school year. But we do this in the hopes that she will have a leg up on he slack jawed contemporaries. Plus I continue to pay the taxes to make sure that the kids with the lazy moms and dads children get the education that they are entitled to receive.
How about less taxes and more personal responsibly!
That is great that you "choose" to and have the financial ability to provide your daughter with an alternative education. However, to call other parents lazy because they either "choose" or don't have the financial means to provide a private school education for their children is pretty elitest and pathetic.
As Iain said, school taxes benefit society as a whole and allow all children a chance at an education and maybe a chance to become this country's next great leader or inventor.
Geez lets take my statement out of context and use it as an avenue for a personal attack!
If you will note again for the record I was quoting onething who stated earlier in this post :
I am all for higher property taxes. I do not like the idea of a state income tax though (unless it would keep out more Californians), it's one of the great things about TX.
I think it is good that people have the choice to send their kids to private schools. I will never send my kids to a private school.
Teachers do need more money. As for college education, the gov. already does alot to help poorer families. I am one of them, I qualify for all the finacial aid possible from the gov. The federal grants and loans are adequate, with my guard benefits I've got enough to live alot easier.
Right now "TX law guarantee[s] the top 10 percent of high school graduates a spot in the state university of their choice" (Texas News).
Chris
I'm going to put my two cents in here and it has nothing to do with being elitist or pathetic. We made the choice to send our daughter to a private school because she gets more personalized attention due to smaller class sizes, plus they also believe in discipline and accountability. I don't care who you are you do not have to be rich to send you child (if you so choose) to a private school.
It appears someone moved my response to POS concerning private schools, so... I'm gonna repost it here (since it didn't have anythign to do with bashing dubya anyway :P )
POS (and Vivid), I completely understand why you send your child to private school (as my parents did with me). However, if more money were spent on the education system (and the educators, imho), then perhaps the public school system could be brought up to a level where you wouldn't feel the need to send your child to private school. Not only would that benefit you directly (no need to pay for private school), but it would also benefit everyone across the board, including those who can't afford to send their children to private schools, for whatever reason.
I don't think private schools are for the rich, or elitist, or anything else like that. I also agree that you don't have to be rich to send your child to one.
I think every child in this country should be entitled to a quality education, regardless of income, racial background, etc. And I think that a good step in that direction would be to raise the pay of teachers, which would attract higher quality educators, and reduce the turnover rate among public school educators, many of whom cite the low pay and lack of funding as primary reasons for leaving the profession. Better teachers mean a better quality of education for students, which means a better chance of success for those students.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Altiain you are right in your assement that public school teachers should get paid way more than they do now but unfortunately there is more wrong with the public education system today than just teachers pay. That more in itself if why we send our daughter to a private school versus public.
My bad. I had my moderator hat on and got 'click' happy. Sorry about that.
Definitely agree with this one. While teachers in many (but not all) areas of the country could use a raise, it is by no means a blanket solution to improving the quality of public education in the country.
BTW, I sometimes think the teacher's pay thing is a little blown out of proportion, considering in most places, they only work about 9 months out of the year...it seems only fair that the pay would be 25% less than some other professions.
I think one the best ways to give teachers a raise would be to cut the pay of school administrators. A lot principals are making well upwards of $100k while the teachers at the school are making $25k; that ain't right!
Personally, I think there are some fundamental problems in the public education system that cannot presently be solved. These include the lack of discipline in schools and the lack of a means to instill it; the unwillingness of certain unions to allow pay to be linked to performance, and the number of unqualified teachers out there.
For one example, I have a relative who recently graduated #1 in her class with a master in education. For one of her student classes, she was supposed to instruct on a science lesson for some 5th graders. She asked for my help on planning the lesson. I asked her what she wanted to do the lesson on: Boyle's Law, Bernoulli's Principle, etc. She just stared at me with a blank look and said, I don't know, something with colors. Coudn't believe it. Perhaps I expect too much, but I was hoping she'd at least articulate some concept she'd try to get accross to the class. And she's supposed to be one of the better ones!
I'd love to be a teacher some day, but not right out of school. I'll wait till I've got more life experience and I've finished a career. I just feel I'll have more to offer and I hope I'll have more credibility when I explain the applicability of what I'm teaching.
That's a common misconception. Students may only attend school for about 9 months a year (actually, more like 10 months these days, since a typical school "year" ends at the end of May and begins at the beginning of August), but teachers spend a lot more time at work than that. There are literally weeks worth of In Service days for teachers over summer "break", plus weeks of seminars to attend to maintain their certifications and learn new curriculum requirements, etc. Sadly, since teachers are contract employees, they typically don't get paid any extra for this time. Nor do they get sick leave or vacation time like a typical employee might - Melissa has to accrue sick time vouchers to cover the cost of hiring a substitute in case she gets sick - right now because she's only been there for six months if she should be out sick for more than two days the cost of the substitute the school would have to hire for any additional days comes out of her pocket.
In Northwest ISD the annual teacher contract covers 184 working days. Melissa figures she'll need an additional 25-30 days for seminars and additional training in order to stay current in all of her certifications for the upcoming year. That's 214 working days out of the year. A typical private employee with 3 weeks paid vacation and 5 days accrued sick time works 241 days out of the year... and doesn't have to pay out of pocket to hire someone when he or she is sick. Nor does that account for the time she spends on weekends grading papers and doing student evaluations, setting up parent/teacher conferences or attending academic progress review meetings, etc. She's at the school to meet her kids coming off the bus every morning at 7:15 am... and - like tonight, for example - she usually isn't home until after 6pm.
Yeah, teachers may not work quite as many days in a year as a typical white collar Joe or Jane... but please don't fool yourself into thinking they work any fewer hours.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
IMVivid is right... it's not that there isn't money in the State Government's pockets to properly fund schools and teachers, it's that they spend that money on other things. I couldn't agree with altiain more -- teachers, who don't have high salaries by "industry standards" to begin with, should not have to pay for school supplies out of their own pocket. Fortunately, many/most teachers do it anyway, because they are dedicated, concerned people.
On the other hand, the government shows time and again that it is incapable of appropriately managing a budget, and that it is wasteful in it's spending. Raising taxes -- any taxes -- is a bad idea, not because the funds aren't needed, but because the government will not appropriately spend it.
Balance the budget -- and I mean all governmental budgets (local, state, national) -- first. Next, get rid of all public debt. Then we can take the billions of dollars that are currently spent paying the interest on our governmental debt each year and use that to (1) improve education, (2) increase the general social welfare, (3) and provide strong national defense (not national offense). Of course, that path -- the path of fiscal responsibility -- is a long, difficult and unpopular one.
But didn't all our lottery money go to fix all that?
"You can be a millionaire, and not pay taxes..... First, get a million dollars........"
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