JStankus I'd love to see the spreadsheet I appreciate the offer!
Has anyone heard if the on-line registration has helped speed up registration during SCCA events this year? Since it seems like it would address a lot of the problems Brock mentioned in the post above mine?
Is there any talk of going to 100% on line registration like BMW and S2k do? That way that part of the event would be done in advance thereby eliminating some of the problems? Heck you could even pay-pal for the event in advance!
There is no "line" at registration... it's just a mob. In order to have a line, you need to have "line markers" -- perhaps a long row of cones or something. Otherwise, people simply crowd the table(s) trying to get up front first.Originally Posted by brock
On-line has not been the best run this year. No mechanism to encourage folks to un-register themselves if they change their mind about coming. Registration should not be opened until a number of weeks before the event. This is to reduce the no-shows. I would love to see pay-pal or some other payment mechanism, If folks have some bucks invested they would be more likely to only register for what they will attend. I can't even get the emails of the online preregistered folks to send them a note to ask if they will attend.
Annual pre-paids are another issue. I am going to propose that those folks must confirm attendance to get their preferred work assignment.
100% preregister events I think would be nice, but I have feeling that there would be some resistance on the board.
Regards
John
JStankus I got your spreadsheet! Thank you very much!
I know S2K has a window in which they open registration for the events on line. DLBracing should be able to do the same for you. I'm sure 100% on-line is a lofty goal but if you make it enticing to folks it could work! These computers seem to be catching on maybe it’s time to embrace the technology.
It is a feature of DLBracing to set the registration open date. DD didn't do that so registration is open for all events all year
John
Don't get me wrong about the registration mess. I think that the people working registration are doing a great job. I believe the problem is that the people walking up to the table that have no clue what is going on are what really mess up the whole process.
The greater problem, and the one that is almost impossible to solve is the problem of the uninformed/uneducated.
Ultimately I do not believe that a real solution will be found until you are able to register, pay, and select your work assignment online. Then take a printout to a prereg line where a barcode is scanned to confirm you are there. Finally you sign the insurance waiver. Something along these lines would greatly streamline the process.
Unfortunately it is too much of a change for most to feel comfortable with.
What? How can the uninitiated be responsible for messing things up? Someone who doesn't know what's going on simply needs to be told/shown what is going on. Blaming them for the mess is like blaming customers waiting in line at the Post Office for how slow that line moves ("silly people... they should know that four of our five people behind the counter are going to take their 2.5 hour break starting at 11:00am..." :P )
Sure, there are lots of people at events that don't know what they have to do... someone has to tell them. And the process needs to be simple, and clearly "marked" in order to be effective. The SCCA actually has attempted to make things clear to everyone -- they put up signs over the tables to try and let people know what they need to do. But apparently more is needed:
- clearly marked lines,
- perhaps a simple hand-out that folks can be given that explains (in 200 words or less, and lots of pictures) what they need to do,
- maybe someone who's job it is to shepard folks and answer questions.
Don't blame the aimless masses if they don't know what to do... help them!
It may just be me, but before I showed up at my first AX I had already found out everything that was expected of me by spending about 15 minutes on the TX Region website. Even after spending an entire 15 minutes finding this elusive information I was asking people that looked like they knew what they were doing if what I had found out was correct. Additionally if I did not take that 15 minutes to find out what I was supposed to do, I would at least speak up and say something like "Hey, this is my first time at this sort of thing. What do I need to do?"
In the three years, two half seasons and one full, that I have been involved in AX I have only heard two people ask this. Most people stand in a registration line for 20 to 30 minutes surrounded by people that know this and still come up to the registration desk and ask "What class am I in?"
I guess that this is just way too much to ask, and that is why it is my opinion that the "aimless masses" deserve to be blamed.
I do agree with you though that we need to educate them. I vote that we set up a "Help, I'm lost" table with a huge banner, as the "aimless masses" don't usually have any indication as to who they are tatooed to their forehead.
I have actually seen printouts with novice autocrosser instructions available, but these are usually not in plain sight or on a table after you get past registration. This may have been at ER and not SCCA though.
As for the lines, we tried that last year and people still could not get it right. I guess they were not looking far enough ahead.
Sorry, I'm a little cranky since I forgot the NP today and my boys are a little on the raw side.
But why should this responsibility lie solely on the shoulders of the folks having the autocross (no matter who the organization). Some of this responsibility for being prepared for an event lies on the attendee. I understand that folks are going to come to these events and may not have all their ducks in a row, but they also need to share some responsibility to be prepared to go play autocross. A lot of the need to know stuff is readily available on the Internet and it's not like we don't help newbie’s who ask for help, I have and IIRC you were one of the folks I helped.
Plus do you think the registration issues were the primary reason we only got three runs on Sunday?
Why not? DLB Racing requires email addresses for registration. The North Texas S2000 Owner's CLub uses DLB for event pre-registration, and they seem to have no trouble sending emails out to remind participants.
Personally, although I'm prepaid for the year (contrary to what Peg D. seems to think), I still register online for every event. Instead of asking for confirmation from annual pre-pays, why not require them to register online to secure their preferred work spots? We might not be able to force everyone to pre-register, but we can likely increase the percentage of entries that are pre-registered by taking their perks away if they don't. There is already one condition that must be met (pre-payment for the year) in order to secure a preset work assignment, I don't see any reason why there can't be a second condition (pre-register online to confirm you're going to be there for a particular event) as well.
That's putting it mildly.
Since we have some rather, umm... technologically resistant members on the board, instead of trying to force pre-registration, why not try to encourage it? I would suggest raising the event entry prices - $30 for non-members, $20 for members... but offering a $5 discount off of entry cost per event for pre-registration. This can be presented to the board as a win-win situation - if it doesn't encourage higher pre-registration numbers, then it just means Solo makes more money (Tom seems to like that). If it does encourage higher pre-registration, we don't lose any money compared to now (which Tom will like), and we streamline registration, allowing us to start events earlier and minimizing everyone's least favorite part of the day. What's not to lose?
On the day of the event, you could then segregate the Registration line into pre-registered and walkups, and if your name ain't on the pre-reg list , you pay the larger fee. No exceptions. This still allows walkups, while introducing an incentive to pre-register. Couple this with my suggestion above that requires pre-registration even for annual prepays to secure their worker assignment, and I bet you'd see pre-registration skyrocket.
Now, you put three people behind the table at event Registration - two for pre-regs, one for walkups. No more "A-M" & "N-Z" (or whatever other worthless arbitrary breakdown we're currently using) lines. Install a publicly announced pre-registration cutoff before the event (1 week, five days, whatever the computer guys need to get the collected data ready to go before the day of the event), download a list of those pre-registered so that Registration can quickly process them, and there you go. Hand a copy of that list to the guy handling the walkup line, and he can quickly see what numbers are or aren't taken - if it's on the pre-reg list, then it's not available to the walkups.
Another benefit to this system is that a larger percentage of the problem kids you have in Registration (I don't know what my number is, I don't knwo what class I'm in, etc.) will be in the walk-up line, further encouraging the people who have to suffer behind them to pre-regsiter for the following event(s).
I don't think banning walkups will ever be practical (or possible) at an event the size we typically get. However, I don't see any reason why we can't offer incentives for pre-registration in order to encourage more people to do so. The problem with the current system is that there aren't any incentives to pre-register. Why bother, if you're going to have to pay the same amount and stand in the same long lines as the walkups?
One last unrelated suggestion - put a big, bold link to Mouton's website on the main Texas Region solo page. The link should say something like "Not sure what class you're in? Click here!". That would probably go a long way towards helping out the newbies, since most of the newbies I've met who didn't know what class they're in would have happily tried to look it up if they knew where to find the information. For whatever dumbass reason, the SCCA doesn't publish the info online (I guess so that they can rake in more money from selling rulebooks?
Bottom line? Put some preocedures in place to encourage pre-registration, make everyone aware of them with announcements at Driver's meetings and announcements and prominent links on the main Texas Region Solo II webpage, and then stick to them. If one of our resident technological dinosaurs doesn't pre-register because his telegraph wasn't working properly charge them the higher entry fee. They'll bitch and moan... but they'll pre-register next time. Nobody - especially a bunch of penny-pinching cone-dodgers - wants to pay more than they have to.
One thing I've learned from being married to a (former, but still dealing with my short-bus butt every day) Special Education teacher is that you have to establish a rigid and easily understandable system of rewards and punishments and make no exceptions. Once you do this, even the most difficult of kids (or autocrossers
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Yep, it's just you...
All I'm saying is if you are waiting on the uninitiated to do something, then you are going to continue to have a mess. They won't, so "you've" got to do something... take positive steps to alleviate the problem. Wringing your hands, blaming "them", and hoping all the folks will take the same kind of initiative you did at your first event just ain't gonna solve the problem.
Because the event organizers are the only ones who can effect any change. Sure... in a perfect world, new folks would shoulder their share of the responsibility, and research what the heck is going on before coming to an event. And they'd ask questions while at the event. And all children would say "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" when speaking to their elders. :P But the SCCA, ER, PCA, whoever can't count on that ever happening. So they need to take positive, visible steps to help the situation. Steps like you suggested in your later post.
But hey, YMMV.
I like the idea of a newbie school and I for one would be willing to pay for an intro course and tech inspection rather than have to search the web and not have a human there to answer questions for me...
This way I can find out about what I need to do to prepare myself and the car for a safe and fun experience...
Raymond
Daily Driver: 2013 Club edition in Pearl White Mica
Lightness? What's that? I drive a PRHT!
Iain,
I think you are spot on with your suggestions.
We need to clearly inform people what is expected of them, and how they are to do things. Anything else leads to mayhem.
Oh and if you are preregistered and see only one line to the work assignments, create an annual prepaid line. I won't have a problem with it, and I imagine Lauren wouldn't either
John
I took the same 15 minutes, plus printed out a bunch of other stuff that was pertinent. I probably had 3 hours invested by the time I pre-registered.
When I got to the event, I guessed at the location of the pits and I was wrong. Another SCCA racer "suggested" that I needed to move. I guessed at the location of Tech. I got Sammm to take me to registration, where I stood in a line so I could tell them I was pre-registered. I signed some stuff, I gave somebody some money, and I was told "OK!". That was it. No instruction, no "Welcome to the SCCA", no idea if I was finished or not, and certainly no concept of what the next part of my morning was supposed to consist of.
Then to add insult to injury, my first run didn't count and I got a re-run. It was never explained to me. I simply learned of it thru conversation with some of the other folks around me. Wow, I get to go again! Yippee!
Finally, right at the end of my second run, a young lady tried to cross the exit area in order to get to the trailer. I stopped right at the end of the trailer so she could pass. While I waited the 2 or 3 seconds she needed, I looked into the trailer out of curiousity......whereupon one of the officials operating one of the computers yelled "No, we're not going to help you!" as he thumbed me past the trailer. (Yes, that's a direct quote.)
Back in the day (2002), all my officials wore them (without the "ask me anything" part) and we got asked LOTS of questions because we made a point to be available and friendly to everyone. Even WalMart has greeters, and you can ask anyone in a blue vest where the toilet paper is..... and they show you. They don't say "I'm not going to help you."
SCCA events are an environment that is not operated in order to retain or assist participants. If I'd gone there by myself, I would have been totally lost and would have left feeling like an idiot. Gee, I just had a really bad time, was treated badly, and I got 3 whopping laps for a total of 5 minutes on track all day.
I'll try this little venture again, but I have to say that treating new "customers" like they're an inconvenience is not a way to get my third dollar.
Hello, my name is OUTRACE and I'm a motorcyclist. It has been zero days since my last ride.
FWIW Outrace, local SCCA events are the last events I typically suggest to newbies, for many of the reaosns that have been discussed here. You need to come on out to an S2k r PCA event some time - they're much friendlier, more relaxed, and easier on those who aren't grizzled cone-dodging veterans.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Sorry folks, I edited that last message and forgot to put some of the text back in....
Prior to the "Back in the day", I intended to say something about the inability to identify officials who could be asked. I said something about them needing Polo shirts with SCCA OFFICIAL - ASK ME ANYTHING.
Now the message might make more sense..
Hello, my name is OUTRACE and I'm a motorcyclist. It has been zero days since my last ride.
Someone had asked for a comparison to ER events on the TX region list. When I looked at the numbers it was pretty interesting.
Well if we take a look at ER for example they have quite a bit fewer people running with them.
ER Event 1 - 172 entrants with times including 67 R pax and 6 W pax for 99 unique entrants and 542 total runs
ER Event 2 - 172 entrants with times including 71 R pax and 7 W pax for 94 unique entrants and 532 total runs
ER Event 3 - 173 entrants with times including 81 R pax and 5 W pax for 87 unique entrants and 520 total runs
ER Event 4 - 157 entrants with times including 69 R pax and 5 W pax for 83 unique entrants and 480 total runs
ER Event 5 - 161 entrants with times including 68 R pax and 5 W pax for 88 unique entrants and 498 total runs
ER Event 6 - 159 entrants with times including 62 R pax and 7 W pax for 90 unique entrants and 498 total runs
ER Event 7 - 180 entrants with times including 73 R pax and 8 W pax for 99 unique entrants and 558 total runs
ER Average -168 entrants with times including 70 R pax and 6 W pax for 91 unique entrants and 518 total runs Average
For comparison Texas Region events
TX Region Event 1 - 199 unique entrants with times x 3 runs 597 total runs
TX Region Event 2 - 173 unique entrants with times x 4 runs 692 total runs
TX Region Event 3 - 186 unique entrants with times x 4 runs 744 total runs
TX Region Event 4 - 219 unique entrants with times x 3 runs 657 total runs
TX Region Event 5 - 230 unique entrants with times x 3 runs 690 total runs
TX Region Event 6 - 155 unique entrants with times x 4 runs 620 total runs
TX Region Average - 194 unique entrants with times x 3.5 runs 667 total runs average
So ER has less than half the average unique entrants
TX region manages to get almost 150 additonal individual runs in than ER.
John
In that case, it's time to start capping event entries. I don't think I stand alone when I say I won't be coming back next year for a measly three runs when I can get six or eight elsewhere. That won't stop me from going to the Houston Tour or doing Divisionals or a Pro-Solo if SW Division hosts one, but I won't be getting my practice in at Texas Region events.
I've been running with Texas Region SCCA for over five years now, and I've often been the only one to defend the quality of their events when other people mention only getting four runs. Unfortunately, that argument hasn't been worth much this year.
Iain
(Maverick Region PCA member and NTS2kOC member)
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
But that's just 22% more runs per an event that the SCCA actually puts through the timing lights than ER.
Don't you have to tell the computer what the car # is so the PAX actually adds more unique cars as far as the computer is concerned.
Does anyone know what the problem was during first heat that caused it to go so slow? I had heard it was a computer issue is that true?
Yes, that's true. It adds more "classes" and forces the Computer Operator to have to look in more places to find the car...
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