ER autox on Sept 7th (if you're going to nationals please read)

[Davidss]

So we're looking into moving the ER event on September 7th from pennington field to the bus lot. I know a lot of people have been asking for more events at the bus lot to help prepare for nationals. Since this event is just before nationals it would make a lot of sense to have it at the but lot. The only problem with this is that the bus lot rental isn't cheap. So if we were to move the event there this would raise the price $10-15.

Are you planning on going to this event and would you object to paying $10-15 extra?

I know a lot of people don't like to drive to mineral wells. Next year would you like to see more events at the bus lot even if the entry fee was more than penn field or mineral wells?

If you are in support of this plan PLEASE show your support during the drivers meeting this sunday!

[POS Racing]

Quick Question - How come the extra fee?

I notice SCCA doesn't tack on extra fees for the bus lot.

Does BMWCCA??

[Davidss]

Quick Question - How come the extra fee?

I notice SCCA doesn't tack on extra fees for the bus lot.

Does BMWCCA??

The extra fee is to cover the extra expense of the bus lot. It is much more expensive than anywhere else. The bus lot rental fee is almost the cost of renting MSR or Hallet.

Why do other clubs not charge more for the bus lot? The short answer is just that other clubs do things differently. SCCA has a lot more entrants. Some clubs plan on loosing money there and making it back elsewhere.

Let's keep this discussion on track...

[Miatamoto]

Quick Question - How come the extra fee?

I notice SCCA doesn't tack on extra fees for the bus lot.

Does BMWCCA??

Actually BMWCCA has increased registration fees for the bus lot in the past.

[Robert]

I would be OK with moving the pennington field event to TMS for an extra 10-15 bucks.

But I would like to keep the Mineral Wells events next year at Mineral Wells I love that place. I would not mind replacing some of the pennington field events.

[jrj512]

I would pay extra.

I hate to be a POS Racing because I know this is not on track, but replacing maybe three of the Pennington events with TMS would be great. Also also mix up the venues so we hit Pennington, MR, and TMS at various times instead of in a row.

[ken o]

I will pay extra.

[Robert]

If the bus lot is as much as MSR can we do some events their?

[autoxmax]

The extra fee is to cover the extra expense of the bus lot. It is much more expensive than anywhere else. The bus lot rental fee is almost the cost of renting MSR or Hallet.

Why do other clubs not charge more for the bus lot? The short answer is just that other clubs do things differently. SCCA has a lot more entrants. Some clubs plan on loosing money there and making it back elsewhere.

Let's keep this discussion on track...

David, TMS doesn't cost $1500 more than Penn Field. That's what you're basically saying.

Not every event has to be a big money maker. Especially for a club like ER. ER has enough buffer in their fees to where I would think just an additional $5 would cover things.

[sammm]

The extra fee is to cover the extra expense of the bus lot. It is much more expensive than anywhere else. The bus lot rental fee is almost the cost of renting MSR or Hallet.

ER has enough buffer in their fees to where I would think just an additional $5 would cover things.

[onething]

Since I won't be at ER tomorrow (been sick all week), I'll express my opinion now:

As for changing venues - I am not going to the nationals, so I don't care either way.

I know TMS costs more, but do the math. $5 seems more reasonable than $10 - 15.

[Davidss]

David, TMS doesn't cost $1500 more than Penn Field. That's what you're basically saying.

Not every event has to be a big money maker. Especially for a club like ER. ER has enough buffer in their fees to where I would think just an additional $5 would cover things.

Brad, first I want to let you know that I'm trying really hard to write this in a way that avoids getting into any more conflict with you. I saw this post last night but decided to sleep on it and cool off before I wrote a response. That said the way I and others have read your post insinuates that I'm lying and that ER is out to rip people off. Perhaps you did not think through what people would imply. Or perhaps you think I am just grossly misinformed. Either way let's bury this hatchet now. Us getting into an argument on a public forum isn't going to help anyone.

Yes the normal rental cost of the bus lot IS pretty close to $1500 more than Pennington field. To make things work this time we've made some special arrangements with TMS to get a better deal. So this time we're not paying that much but it still is close to $1000 more. Maybe SCCA gets a better rate than ER...

You are correct that not every event has to be a big money maker. But $5 more would only bring in an additional $300 (worst case scenario). Maybe you think ER has a lot larger turnout. This year there have been many events in the 60-80 driver range...

[autoxmax]

Brad, first I want to let you know that I'm trying really hard to write this in a way that avoids getting into any more conflict with you. I saw this post last night but decided to sleep on it and cool off before I wrote a response. That said the way I and others have read your post insinuates that I'm lying and that ER is out to rip people off. Perhaps you did not think through what people would imply. Or perhaps you think I am just grossly misinformed. Either way let's bury this hatchet now. Us getting into an argument on a public forum isn't going to help anyone.

Yes the normal rental cost of the bus lot IS pretty close to $1500 more than Pennington field. To make things work this time we've made some special arrangements with TMS to get a better deal. So this time we're not paying that much but it still is close to $1000 more. Maybe SCCA gets a better rate than ER...

You are correct that not every event has to be a big money maker. But $5 more would only bring in an additional $300 (worst case scenario). Maybe you think ER has a lot larger turnout. This year there have been many events in the 60-80 driver range...

Wow.

I wasn't looking for a public argument, David. You're the one that was asking for public opinions. I actually think ER could use a forum of their own so people could discuss ER items like this. But that's a whole other subject.

I simply based the $1500 amount on ER's last event entry. Total was 103 entries without the Rapide PAX entries. If ER charged an additional $15, you're talking $1545.

If you count the Rapide PAX entry money for ER's last event, that was an additional $530 for just that event.

I was just replying to your note.

I wasn't trying to start a public duel.

Take a deep breath & get some sleep, David.

[Clovis]

Doesn't matter to me if it's $0 or $5-$15, I'll pay it. Drivers will save that much in gas not having to drive to Mineral Wells. We'll get a larger and better course than what Pennington allows. This sounds like a win situation. Lighten up everyone!

I vote for an additional $5-$10 to cover TMS. MW has been pulling 60-70 entries because people are tired of driving all the way out there (various reasons: gas, surface, time). TMS should bring in well over 100 entries.

I moved this out of another event post, I am guessing this is where you intended to post it. -majik

[Rotgirl]

For those of us that paid for the year in advance.........ER made a unilateral offer, which we accepted, in writing, when we filled out the yearly registration form and sent in our checks. ER became bound by that contract when they cashed our checks.

As board members, you can decide to make any changes you want......but you must adhere to contractual law.

So for those of us who have paid for the event(s) at a set price, which both parties agreed to before the season started, we are entitled to a complete refund of event fees (for contemplated Sept 7 changes) and pro-rated membership for that event if a new contract (in writing) is not accepted by both parties.

With all that said, I am not going to pay any additional fees over what was already contractually agreed upon.

IF ER wants to add an additional "special" NON-point event or host an open practice event.......those who want to participate can and as a "special" event, you can exclude anyone you want.

[Clovis]

Seriously? Maybe it will not be mandatory for annual pre-pay? The annual folks pay only if they would like to support the club in procuring better sites for us to race on? Or maybe we just continue to race on the small Pennington site? :)

[nealb]

I’m not a member of ER this year, but am a Nationals competitor. Not looking for an argument, just stating my opinion

If people want to run the bus lot because it is closer than MW, that is one thing and ER needs to factor that into their annual schedule and fee structure.

But, I do not support going to the bus lot as some kind of Nationals practice or having to pay more for these reasons:

1. The surface of the bus lot sucks and is not fun to run on.

2. In my opinion, the grip is not similar to Nats. The grip of the Topeka surface is very dependant on what time of day or day of week you run. So, saying the bus lot is good practice assumes you run first two days, and/or first couple of heats. No way to know that for several more weeks. And then, it would only be “similar” for a small number of locals who may go.

3. Those who don’t go to Nationals would go to a lousy surface and pay more to “subsidize” those who go to Nationals. I don’t think that is right.

4. If you wanted to really get Nats practice, why didn’t you go to Topeka this last weekend and run the two day event?

5. If you want a lot of bus lot practice, run the Divisional Friday practice, and the Divisional and the SCCA Aug 31 event.

6. If you want time on the Topeka surface, go to the Nats practice the Sunday before. That is the real surface, again subject to #2.

[jrj512]

I do not really care about nats practice, so I just go to the lot because I do not mind the surface (I kind of like it), it is easy on tires, and decent location (comapred to MR).

[creek]

I vote no on paying extra for TMS

[jrj512]

BTW, I also save more than $10 on tire wear versus MR and Pennington (to a lesser extent), too.