Looking to buy 1999 or 2000 Miata

[channelmaniac]

And... swapping an engine isn't that hard... they are pretty cheap too

Just ask our turbocharged or supercharged Miata owners... hehehe

[jolberry]

If you are that worried why are you wanting to buy a used car? Go ahead and buy a brand new car spend all that extra money to have warranty. Or take a chance/ have it checked out and go from there. There is no such thing as a flaw free car. Even the new ones have problems.

I beleive you can buy an extended warranty from mazda. Don't know how much but might put your mind at ease.

[Titus]

And... swapping an engine isn't that hard... they are pretty cheap too

Just ask our turbocharged or supercharged Miata owners... hehehe

How about we ask you.... did you ever get your SPEC running?

[Kestrel]

Ok, so let's say I find one with 40 or 50k miles, and I can afford both to buy it and have it checked at your favorite Mazda dealer, and he says it's within specs, and maybe it is because the owner treated it gently. So I buy it and maybe I'm not so gentle and at 60k miles the crank starts to fry. Who pays? The dealer who checked it? Nope. He will claim all he did was check it when I bought it and it was good to go. Possibly the mechanic was not so accurate in his estimation, but who's to know?

But you say I have "backup." Are you saying that for a 2nd owner with 60k miles Mazda will pay? If Mazda will pay for that kind of failure, what difference does it make that it was checked when I bought it? Will their decision whether to pay depend on the results of the check out? They could argue that since it was within specs when I bought it, it survived the warranty so they are relieved of responsibility. In that case it would have been better not to have a record of the check out.

There are no guarantees in life, and all cars break.

All I’m saying is if you get the end-play checked by a Mazda Dealership before you buy it, and if it’s OK (as I’m sure it will be), you should get plenty of years of use out of the car. If your 1999 develops a problem 5 years and 60,000 miles from now (the car will be 11 years old and probably have well over 100,000 miles by then), will Mazda replace the engine free of charge? Ah... what do you think?

Heck, the 1990 and 1991 had the "short nose crank" issue, and there are still plenty of them on the road... after 15 years of service! If it worries you that much, pick another model year (1992-1997, 2001-today), buy an new one like jolberry suggests, or go find something more reliable... like a Yugo or MG.

[Treibenschnell]

How about we ask you.... did you ever get your SPEC running?

He shoots, he scores!!

[riverracer]

Perhaps there is still a good Ford "PINTO" out there somewhere....

Personally I would worry more about one of the Bose speakers going bad in the 99 before the crank.......

[karlcundiff]

It should be clear from the context, kestrel, and, noting your end tag, giving me the credit for common sense, that the 60k miles I was referring to was the odometer reading, not the miles I put on it myself. For the type of problem in question, a well known defect in manufacture, it is not at all unprecedented for a manufacturer to repair or replace an engine even after the warranty is expired, for good will purposes, even for a second owner. I read the miata.net thread on this, but I don't recall whether Miata has ever done that. Anyway, from inspecting the torn down engine it should be clear whether the #4 bearing failed as a result of defective manufacture.

I thought the implication from the "backup" comment was that perhaps somebody else would take responsibility if the thing checked good but later failed, but now I suppose it was meant that the second opinion would just back up your own assesment that the car ran well and give you peace of mind.

So I call El Dorado Mazda and ask for service and all they seem to give you to talk to these days is some secretary posing as a service advisor and so I ask about a pre-purchase inspection on a '99 Miata, which includes I don't know what, and it's 50 bucks for the half hour. So since I know, I ask if that includes checking the end play on the crank and she says wait she'll ask, and no that'll be another 50 bucks. So you pretty much have to hold 'em by the hand and you wind up not trusting them so much because you think if you have to remind them to check the end play what else are they forgetting to do?

So I think if you find a '99/'00 with 60-70k miles that's had a well documented 60k-mile service and it runs really good maybe just save the 100 bucks. I wonder if checking the end play is part of the routine on a 60-k mile service for '99 and '00s. Anybody know that?

[POS Racing]

Here is a detailed write-up on the #4 issue = http://www.miata.net/solo/99miatathr...ngfailure.html

karlcundiff if your deeply worried about it go for something older or newer than a 1999 or 2000 model, since more than likely you will have this concern in the back of your head the entire time you own the car, and what fun would that be!

[Kestrel]

It should be clear from the context, kestrel, and, noting your end tag, giving me the credit for common sense, that the 60k miles I was referring to was the odometer reading, not the miles I put on it myself.

So, you missed what I wrote...

If your 1999 develops a problem 5 years and 60,000 miles from now (the car will be 11 years old and probably have well over 100,000 miles by then)...

The implication was that you were buying a car with 50,000 miles on it, getting the end-play checked before you buy it, and then putting on 60,000 miles over time. In other words, I completely understood what you were saying, but whatever...

I think POS hit the nail on the head for you (and you did post here looking for opinions/advice, didn't you? ) -- buy a year other than 1999 and 2000. This issue is worrying you enough that it might detract from the pleasure you would derive from owning an exceptional car like a Miata. As there are plenty of 1992-1997 and 2001+ Miatas out there, I'd just skip over the model years that had you worried. Problem solved!

Peace

[altiain]

Ok, so let's say I find one with 40 or 50k miles, and I can afford both to buy it and have it checked at your favorite Mazda dealer, and he says it's within specs, and maybe it is because the owner treated it gently. So I buy it and maybe I'm not so gentle and at 60k miles the crank starts to fry. Who pays? The dealer who checked it? Nope. He will claim all he did was check it when I bought it and it was good to go. Possibly the mechanic was not so accurate in his estimation, but who's to know?

Karl, I don't think you truly understand the cause of the #4 bearing problem.

The problem occurs because a small percentage of '99 & '00 Miatas had an improperly manufactured thrust bearing installed during assembly of the engine. It is not an engineering problem - i.e., there is not an inherent problem with the engine design, waiting to bite the unwary consumer. It's a manufacturing issue - some of the engines were assembled with an incorrect part.

What's that mean to you? Here's what it means - if you look at a '99 or '00, have an endplay measurement properly performed, and find it to be within spec, you will never develop a #4 thrust bearing problem with that car. Period. The cars either have the problem from Day 1 (and it just hasn't worn enough to produce engine failure yet), or they don't. It is physically impossible for the cars to develop an improperly machined thrust bearing because of anything the driver does or doesn't do.

In short - if you got the bad bearing, your engine will go boom. If you didn't, it won't. Not now, not ever.

That's not to say you can't have other problems. But if an endplay measurement performed by a reputable and knowledgable mechanic comes back negative, you can rest assured that of the many things you have to worry about when purchasing a used car, a bad #4 thrust bearing isn't one of them.

Iain
(#52 on the board list of #4 engine failures, now with 93k hard miles on engine #2 )

[Sharpie]

I have heard very scary things about El Dorado service dept., I would stay far away, but that's just based on one guys REALLY bad experience.

I would have no hesitation buying a 99' or 00', due to #4.

[karlcundiff]

Well, yeah, I DO understand... I never called it an "engineering" problem. What I said was:

"For the type of problem in question, a well known defect in MANUFACTURE,...."

I studied miatasolo's page before posting anything about the problem. I'd probably still buy a '99/'00 if I found one that was running great at 60k miles 'cause I prefer the flush lamps. But I can dig the pop-ups, too, and as I said, my budget has shrunk while I've been goofing off.

Now for an ENGINEERING problem, best examples are the short nosed cranks on the '90s and '91s and the clutch shudder with the '01s to '03s. Well, as I said before, yeah, sure I know, you just have to be careful and/or just fix the problem--but I'd rather not deal with it so I'll be avoiding those years as well.

So now I guess I'll be catching hell from everybody with those cars too.

It's not the topic of this thread, but seems to me the vintage years were '94-'97. What I'm trying to understand now is the change from '95-OBDI to '96-OBDII:

I assume OBD means "on board diagnostics." The Miata history at Edmund's says they recalibrated the "engine control computer." These the same things?

Where exactly, did they find the 5 horsepower? All by way of recalibrating the engine control computer, wherein resides, I suppose, the...fuel injection mapping...the ignition timing...as well as the OBD?

So can you bolt an OBDII onto a '94/'95 and get 5 horsepower? Lower emissions?

[Titus]

It's not the topic of this thread, but seems to me the vintage years were '94-'97. What I'm trying to understand now is the change from '95-OBDI to '96-OBDII

I am not sure how the power is effected by it, but the key difference you will experience as an owner is the OBDII port. When you get your inspection in a '96-up, they plug in to your ODBII port to check for issues. There is no port on the 90-95 cars (OBDI), so they do the sniffer test.

The other time this comes into effect is if you want to add a Turbo that replaces the ECU. The aftermarket ECUs used with these applications do not send codes to the OBDII port so some inspectors will fail you for it.

[POS Racing]

Got some good questions in that last post karlcundiff!

Why don't you throw up some new posts for those questions!

[Treibenschnell]

So now I guess I'll be catching hell from everybody with those cars too.

Nah... I won't say a word!

[channelmaniac]

How about we ask you.... did you ever get your SPEC running?

Not yet! Too damn hot out.

[channelmaniac]

I have heard very scary things about El Dorado service dept., I would stay far away, but that's just based on one guys REALLY bad experience.

I would have no hesitation buying a 99' or 00', due to #4.

Yeah... When I bought my 2003 from them (BRAND NEW) I brought it back for service. They said they replaced 2 aftermarket rims (They lied, it still shook like an unbalanced washing machine) and they sprayed new clear coat on the rear deck to cover some scratches. They did a real crap job there too... It's thick, looks yellow compared to the rest of the clear coat, and they didn't wet sand or anything...

All that after keeping the car for almost a WEEK.

I got a real good buy on a bunch of oil filters from them and haven't been back since.

Oh, and Discount Tire has the best damn wheel balancing machine - she rides like glass now.

RJ

[Kestrel]

So now I guess I'll be catching hell from everybody with those cars too.

Nobody is throwing hell at you for you to catch. You mentioned that because of the #4 Thrust Bearing problem, you were giving up on the '99 and '00 cars... we're just trying to say there's no need to "throw the baby out with the bath water". But it's your money, get what you want. Seriously. It's all ...

[karlcundiff]

I really do appreciate the advice. This is a cool group.

[Kestrel]

I really do appreciate the advice. This is a cool group.

We just want you in a Miata and out autocrossing with us cone junkies real soon...