I'd be interested in what Iain has to say about this. ::Clown::
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I'd be interested in what Iain has to say about this. ::Clown::
Linkie
Dang the title said, "This is interesting" but it wasn't........ :(
::Rasp::Quote:
Originally Posted by POS Racing
Do you really want my opinion on it? Okay, I'll say it nicely - what a load of clueless, tree-hugging, pie-in-the-sky hippie bullshit. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by black roadster
Electric cars were a great idea... except that they only had a useful range of around 100 miles per charge, and needed to be charged for something like 8 hours to restore that full range again. I guess that's great if you live in a large urban area and only take short trips, but there are more efficient gasoline powered kei cars for that purpose.
Of course, that 100 miles per charge was when new. One thing I like about my gasoline-powered cars is that the fuel tank doesn't shrink over time, unlike the capacity on a battery. Even better, my maximum speed and acceleration are the same on a full tank as they are on an almost empty tank... again, unlike they would be with a battery-powered car.
However, the biggest problem with electric cars is the one that the tree-hugging liberals never seemed to get through their thick skulls - electricity isn't free. Just because it magically comes out of your wall when you plug something in doesn't mean that a fossil fuel wasn't burned to release the energy you're pumping into your "clean" EV. Quite the contrary, the vast majority of electricity in this country is still produced through the burning of fossil fuels, namely coal, which happens to be a whole lot worse for the atmosphere in general than the burning of refined gasoline in today's LEV and SULEV cars. But since the tree huggers never actually noticed this pollution coming form their electric cars (none of them live near a power generation plant - they build those in other people's back yards), they assumed that the energy that powered their wonderful electric cars was low-carb, guilt-free and as a bonus would whiten their teeth!
Don't even get me started about the toxicity of the lead-acid battery packs that were used in the first-generation GM EV-1.
The EV-1 was a failed experiement. It wasn't killed because of some vast right-wing conspiracy. It wasn't killed so that GM could sell more Hummers. It was killed because, ultimately, it proved to be a really bad soluiton to the problem.
No thats just what the media wanted you to think. ::Clown::Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
My Dad used to be the CFO for a "tree-hugging liberal" company called Real Goods. The company's entire office facility was off of the grid, generating it's own power via wind, solar, and hydro. The parking lot had charging stations for about a dozen cars. The employees that had electric vehicles would charge them each day while at work rather than at home. They also had a bio diesel processing tank for people to bring in there old cooking oils, etc. I know that this is more of an exception rather than a rule, but you need to understand that there are a LOT of people in Northern California that do understand and care about the whole issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
And how does this relate to the EV1??Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
Iain said it "doesn't mean that a fossil fuel wasn't burned to release the energy you're pumping into your "clean" EV". I was trying to show that in some cases it does. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by POS Racing
Go eat a granola bar ya tree hugger! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
While I agree with most of what Iain said, Battery technology has improved tremendously. If the market place adopted it, batteries could actually be viable. As for the coal burning electric plants, that's another problem.
I personally see Bio-Diesel and E85 as more realistic solutions.
What about disposal of these old batteries?? Do you just dig a whole and throw them in the hole??Quote:
Originally Posted by black roadster
The Toyota folks claim the batteries in the Prius will last the life of the car (150,000 miles), so they are making leaps and bounds in technology!
Improper disposal is becoming less of a problem, as recycling becomes easier. Believe it or not, a majority of the lead in new car batteries comes from recycled batteries.Quote:
Originally Posted by POS Racing
I would hope so. Lithium Ion batteries are very nasty... NiMH... not sure how bad those are compared to lead... but I don't want any of those reclamation centers in my back yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
I think there should be some nice desert areas in the southwest where we can put those sites ;)
There are a lot of people in Northern California that think if I have aftermarket wheels on my car that gives a police officer the right to pull me over and inspect my vehicle for "racing modifications". Who cares what the left coasters think? ::Bleh::Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
On a small scale, you can make renewable energy sources work in a lot of places. On a global - or nationwide - scale? Not gonna happen in our lifetime.
The first rule of physics is "there is no free lunch". Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, which means that every watt of electricity that your WhizBang 2000 uses had to come from somewhere else. Currently, if you plugged into the grid to recharge it, the vast majority of that energy would come from the burning of coal, which is not only worse for the environment, but less efficient than burning refined gasoline.
Even with so called renewable energy sources like solar, wind, hydro, or geothermal, there is always a tradeoff. What's worse - drilling in ANWAR or covering all of New Mexico in solar grids? Either one destroys the ecology and natural beauty. I assure you that building enough dams, geothermal plants, wind farms, and solar collectors to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels at current techonology levels would do far more harm than good to the ecology of this planet.
I don't think that fossil fuels will be around forever, but I've yet to see a viable alternative technology. Electric vehicles will never be that alternative, at least imho.
Whatever dude. ::Clown::
Renewable fules like E85 also have their own problems. They don't produce as much power as gasoline and require massive farms to produce the raw materials. These farms also produce their own toxins such as pestecides and fertelizer runoff. Also, with contined use of pestecides, the bugs become more and more resistant to them and therfore neccecitate the use of stronger chemicals. :(
But Dubya said corn ethanol was the solution to end our dependence on foreign oil! :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus Flux
Well put, Nexus. Your point explains exactly why I laugh every time I see an E85 or Flexfuel commercial on TV.
Corn is our Friend! ::Clown::
http://www.gm.com/company/onlygm/liv...=1&carNumber=1
I was watching one of the Sunday morning car shows last weekend that featured Jay Lenos 1909 Baker Electric. It had a range of around 100 miles, took 8 hours to recharge and had a top speed of 22mph.
Haven't come very far with the electric car since then have we?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...o/1302886.html