Thanks, and a question.

I wanna say THANKS to all who helped me thru my second Solo2.

(My first was about 25 years ago and I did it in a Dodge Powerwagon with a 4" lift kit and 33" tires, but that was a different story.)

But now the question: How do you justify all the time, expense, and trouble for ~3 minutes of fun every two weeks (roughly)?

Don't misunderstand. I enjoyed myself and I'll be returning as soon as the clutch gets fixed and some tires are mounted, but I'm wondering..... what do you folks get out of it?

Signed
Slightly Jaded but trying to understand.

IMHO you didn't choose the best AX in DFW to return to Autocross. The SCCA takes the most time for the least effort; if it wasn't for the level of competition I'd skip SCCA altogether! Plus the SCCA has had a bad case of growing pains this season. But it could have been worse you could have gotten 3 runs for all your hours spent..... :(

Maybe next time try ER or better yet run an S2K event! BTW. It was nice meeting you today! 8)

Skip SCCA at all costs! At least for now anyhow... they've got issues that are bigger than they can deal with!

S2K and ER are more than worth the money!

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Maybe next time try ER or better yet run an S2K event!

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There is an ER event scheduled for 8/29/04 @ Pennington. Turn-out will be smaller than SCCA and you can get 6 runs for $35. (They don't provide early/online registration.)

http://autocross.com/er/

The Honda S2K events do provide the best bang for the buck in DFW AX. They cap entries at 50, and you'll get 8 runs (at a Mineral Wells course that will be ~1.5 miles in length) for $30. Their next event is scheduled for 9/18/04 and you can register online at dlbracing.com. IIRC, they open up registration 2 weeks prior to the event and it will fill up fast!

http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/index....owtopic=168872

What do I get out of an SCCA autocross? Camaraderie, plus a level of competition that you won't find at some of the smaller venues. We've got a lot of past and present National trophy winners and Champions in our Region - if you want to do well in the Pax (or even in raw time) against them you'll have to drive extremely well.

However, if you want more seat time for less of an overall time investment, you need to come out to an S2000, BMWCCA, or PCA autocross. All offer a minimum of 8 timed runs, usually with fun runs after the end of the official event, and all tend to draw far smaller crowds than the SCCA or ER, which makes for a shorter and more casually relaxed day.

Still, autocrossing is never going to make sense from a seat time per day perspective. You have to be interested in the unique challenges that autocrossing offers. Myself, I find the format of only getting a few runs on what is essentially a brand new course every time challenging, and the adrenaline rush from getting a run just right (or almost right) is so good it will make my hands shake. I like that concentrated aspect of autocrossing, as I don't get the same feeling from a really good open track session. In contrast, I find open track to be more relaxing, almost like a form of mechanical yoga with the repetetive actions and unconsious focus that they bring.

That's the difference for me - after a good autocross run, I can literally feel the adrenaline running through my veins. After a good track session, I might be physically tired, but mentally I feel very calm and relaxed, almost the exact opposite of how I feel during autocross.

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Originally Posted by altiain

What do I get out of an SCCA autocross? Camaraderie, plus a level of competition that you won't find at some of the smaller venues. We've got a lot of past and present National trophy winners and Champions in our Region - if you want to do well in the Pax (or even in raw time) against them you'll have to drive extremely well.

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Yep but it's a really thought arena to see if you like autocross just for the reasons you listed above. :shock:

Competition level is the highest but I don't recall seeing any chameleons yesterday??? :P

OUTRACE, it was good to meet you as well.

Like altiain said, autocross can be a tough sell on a "seat time per hours spent standing around" basis. And the SCCA events are without a doubt, the worst events to go to if you judge it by those standards *. The offset to the poor seat-time-to-stand-around-time ratio is the level of competition.

I highly recommend that you skip all autocross events until the next North Texas S2000 Owners Club (NTS2KOC) event, which will be held in Mineral Wells on September 18th. Here's why: The Equipe Rapide (ER) event that will be held at Pennington Field on August 29th will be better than the SCCA event you just attended. You'll get 6 runs (if you pay the extra $10.00 for the PAX runs), and there will probably be fewer people than at the SCCA event. As an added bonus, ER events usually go a little more smoothly (fewer timing issues, etc). More runs and fewer people will mean a better "seat-time-to-stand-around time" ratio. But it will only be a little better... if you go there and still don't feel it's worth it, you may give autocross up all together before you've given the NTS2KOC event a try.

The NTS2KOC events are not a panacea of racing perfection either, but with less than 50 entrants (instead of 150 or so at an ER event and 200+ at an SCCA event) and 8 runs on a 90+ second course (instead of 4 to 6 runs on a 45 second course), they offer the best seat-time-to-stand-around-time in the DFW area. Add to that the possibility (probability) of fun runs after the event, and the casual, friendly atmosphere and you simply can't beat the NTS2KOC events. :thumleft:

If after an NTS2KOC event, you are still wondering if autocross is worth it to you, then you'll probably be better off giving up on autocross... it just doesn't get any better than their events. That’s not to say you’d need to give up on performance events or MME – there are still potential open lapping days at Motor Sports Ranch, and our cruises to enjoy… not to mention the friendly banter on this forum – but if the NTS2KOC event doesn’t convince you that there is something fun about autocross, no autocross event will! :wink:

But come on out to that event in September… I’m confident you’ll really enjoy it.

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* By the way, you are not alone in wondering if autocross is worth the effort. We have 100 members on this forum, and only about 20 or so come out and play at local autocrosses. It's not for everyone, and I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons some people choose not to participate is exactly what you are saying/wondering: is standing around a parking lot all day for 4 short bursts of fun really worth it?

For some of us it is. We enjoy the camaraderie and the challenge, and quite frankly, autocross offers the only real legal outlet for our... ah,er,um... performance itch. :wink: But everyone gets burned out on the whole thing, particularly after a hot day waiting on 200+ of our "closest friends" to take their turn around a 40 second course. Believe me when I tell you yesterday wasn't nearly as bad as it can get. But it wasn't as good as it can get either. Give that NTS2KOC event a try before you "throw in the towel" :wink: :D .

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

NTS2KOC events are not a panacea of racing perfection either...

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HEY!!! :o

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Originally Posted by Clovis

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

NTS2KOC events are not a panacea of racing perfection either...

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HEY!!! :o

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You need to read a little further into Kestrel's state of the N. Texas autocross scene.

Now for the rest of the story!

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

...but with less than 50 entrants and 8 runs on a 90+ second course, they offer the best seat-time-to-stand-around-time in the DFW area. Add to that the possibility (probability) of fun runs after the event, and the casual, friendly atmosphere and you simply can't beat the NTS2KOC events.

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Clovis you need to keep the revs down and read the entire paragraph (yes he is long winded :wink: ) you will note Kestrel has nothing but praise for you high strung Hondas! :lol:

You know you guys put on the best AX in north Texas! :thumleft:

Thanks for the feedback guys. Believe me, I'm not the type that will give up because of a single event. As I said, I'll be back.

Your fairly consistent mention of the comraderie strikes a chord, partly because I saw one of my old moto-nemeses wandering thru the paddock. Heck of a good guy and faster than six pounds of ExLax.... and it brought back the instant recognition and appreciation of a common history / passion. He and I will always know one another as fierce competitors and gentlemen in battle.

My personal concern about autox is exactly what you all seem to have experienced at one time or another. Had you not, you wouldn't have been able to appreciate my concerns.

I would have thought this weekend's event was spectacular 25 years ago. But if you're used to passing thru 170 mph at Texas World, rolling off the throttle to drop into T1, dragging a knee thru T1 and T2, accelerating at the apex to make the back end come around so you're pointed downtrack, and getting it back up to 120 before you shut it down and slam it into T3..... All without a seat belt, roll cage, or doors.....you get the point.

One type of racing is NOT better than the other. They're simply different and I need to learn to appreciate the finer points of having four wheels, little power, and lots of protection (comparatively).

I learned a lot on Sunday and accomplished every one of my first day goals. I was "relatively" fast , I hit no cones, I didn't lose it, and I got faster on every run. Was I smooth? Heck no. Do I know what my next steps are? Yes.

0) Fix the clutch.....duh.
1) Suspension and tires, just like we tell newbies in motorcycle racing.
2) Track time
3) Track time
4) Track time

So I guess I'm "in" for a while.... and I'm glad there's a way to do it with less pain than I experienced yesterday.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

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Originally Posted by Clovis

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

NTS2KOC events are not a panacea of racing perfection either...

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HEY!!! :o

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You need to read a little further into Kestrel's state of the N. Texas autocross scene...

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For once, I'm not getting my Lederhosen in a wad :lol: ... I'm sure Clovis was kidding. I'm sure he knows we all can't say enough great things about the NTS2KOC events. But no autocross event is going to replace the thrill of open lapping or wheel-to-wheel racing, hence my comment that even the NTS2KOC events aren't going to measure up to a day at MSR, or Hallet, or Watkins Glen. That's not to take anything away from the S2000 guys, it's just the nature of autocross.

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Originally Posted by OUTRACE

"...and faster than six pounds of ExLax..."

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:lol: What a visual... :lol:

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

For once, I'm not getting my Lederhosen in a wad :lol:

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Somebody mark this day on a calendar! :shock: :shock: :shock: :P

I sure hope Clovis knew you were joking, I figured the good stuff about S2K you had also said needed repeating! :wink:

Yep, just kidding around. :) We appreciate the enthusiasm you guys have for our autocrosses. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

But no autocross event is going to replace the thrill of open lapping or wheel-to-wheel racing

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Where did you read about that? :)

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Originally Posted by Majik

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

But no autocross event is going to replace the thrill of open lapping or wheel-to-wheel racing

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Where did you read about that? :)

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Hey... I've done some open lapping at Motor Sport Ranch.

Once... :oops: :lol: