My current car dilemma, and your inputs

Alright let me first start off by explaining the current cars situation. My folks and I split the price of the note 50/50.

Now for sale by a friend is a full turbo kit for 2000 dollars. The kit normally is 5000 and he is only selling it because he wants an even bigger turbo set up and got a big tax refund. The kit is reliable and all that jazz.

Now my folks and I have been arguing over the long term plans for the GTI (currently at 25,000 miles). I personally feel that the best and most financially prudent decision would be to trade the GTI in before its 40,000 mile service which will cost around 600 dollars or more.

If I was going to plan on trading the car in at this point I would obviously have no reason to pick up/install the turbo.

Now the trade in value of the GTI is about 14,500 if in good condition (which mine is, and actually probably excellent). For this 14500 I could very easily step into a different car, most likely a late AP1 or early AP2 s2000.

So what do ya'll think, keep the GTI, pick up the turbo or move into something different?

Your parents pay for 1/2 your car! Where was that deal when I was a kid ... ::hal::

The rest of your post I don't care about ;-)

Yeah, I know that I am fortunate to even be in this position, and I certainly would not even consider asking to trade the car in for a more expensive car, but I do not see any negatives in trading for a cheaper or evenly valued used car.

Buy a turbo Miata. What advice do you expect from the Miata board.

BTW I find it strange that the spell checker doesn't recognize the word Miata.

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Originally Posted by 762

I personally feel that the best and most financially prudent decision would be to trade the GTI in before its 40,000 mile service which will cost around 600 dollars or more.



So what do ya'll think, keep the GTI, pick up the turbo or move into something different?

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The most financially prudent decision by far is to drive the car into the ground. Get what you want and keep it for at least the next ten years.

Haven't seen many s2ks for 14.5 either but I haven't been looking either since they tend to get in my way on the track.

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Originally Posted by Nails

Haven't seen many s2ks for 14.5 either but I haven't been looking either since they tend to get in my way on the track.

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http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/1581771774.html

But yeah... the "financially prudent" thing to do is skip the turbo AND the S2k and keep the GTI until the wheels fall off.

The 40,000 mile service only costs $600 if you bring it to the stealer.

Its mostly filters and an oil change.

Unless you have a DSG... then Dave or Dubsquared can do it under $300 for the DSG service alone.

You could do your entire 40k yourself... its really simple.

As a daily its hard to beat the GTI... I would keep it and get a toy.

Where did you get the $14k number... it seems high.

Yes he has a DSG.

Yes there are plenty of very nice S2000s for around that price. There was a really nice one for sale on this board in Dec.

Here's my advice. Definitely skip on the turbo, if you're worried about a $600 service than you don't need to crank the boost up on the car. It'll probably cost you a ton of money in the long run.

The smart thing would probably be to keep the GTI, but if the S2000 is really what you want and the parents are fine with that it might not be a horrible idea. Generally I'd trust an aging S2000 more than a modded Vdub.

Can you live with the size of an S2000 as a daily driver? Will you add a rollbar to the S2000?

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Originally Posted by Miatamoto

I'd trust an aging S2000 more than a modded Vdub.

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+ infinity

Financially prudent option: Keep the GTI, don't modify it, enjoy it until it dies (you know this anyway...)
Worst idea on the planet: Modify the GTI

Reasonable compromise: Pick up an low mileage Miata or S2000.

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Originally Posted by Miatamoto

Here's my advice. Definitely skip on the turbo, if you're worried about a $600 service than you don't need to crank the boost up on the car. It'll probably cost you a ton of money in the long run.

The smart thing would probably be to keep the GTI, but if the S2000 is really what you want and the parents are fine with that it might not be a horrible idea. Generally I'd trust an aging S2000 more than a modded Vdub.

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What he said. If you're so worried about the cost of the 40k service that you're thinking about trading the car in, you sure as hell won't be able to afford to maintain the car once you crank up the boost and it starts breaking stuff with no warranty coverage.

Don't forget as well that for that money you're looking at a used S2000 out of warranty. While S2000s are generally reliable cars, they aren't indestructible. Can you afford to replace the top if it develops a hole? Can you afford to keep tires on the car?

Typically the smartest decision is to keep driving the car you've got. If you've got $2k for a turbo kit burning a hole in your pocket, use it instead to pay down the note. You'll pay the car off that much sooner, and you'll also impress your parents with your financial prudence. I know that's not really what you want to hear, but that's my suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

Worst idea on the planet: Modify the GTI

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You guys have no idea of the reliability of a mild tune on the 2.0T.

I have 64k miles on my GTI and have been Stage 1 for 18k miles with nary a hint of problems.

The 2.0T like the 1.8T is over engineered.

I can honestly say besides the potential need for an upgraded DV ($85) there is really no issues with going stage 1 on these cars.

Lots of guys on the VWVortex technical forums have reported 100k+ mile cars as being reliable... as far as the tune goes.

The 2.0T has two main issues... 1) Carbon Build Up and 2) Cam Follower wear.

Both issues are easily manegable with routine maitenance.

Nothing like a rear main seal, ringland or some other crippiling leave you out in the middle of nowhere with a $6,000 service bill issue.

I owned an AP1 for 4 years... it is a phenomenal car and I would never turn someone off of them.

But it couldnt be my only car. You cant turn off the passenger airbag and it would not haul my dogs.

If the OP needs a dailly dog/kid/equipment hauler he will probably needs something besides a S2000.

OP if you decide to get a used S2000 make sure and get the valves checked and adjusted if they are out of spec.

Its good preventitive matenance on these cars and chances are it has never been done.

I have recently been kicking around the idea of getting a 91-93 NSX garage queen and keeping my GTI as my daily!

My old S2000:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...MyS2KFront.jpg

Dog Hauler... 250HP/300lb ft... I raised the front on my coils because I swear I was riding on bumpstops at this height.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...I/DSC_5709.jpg

Yep skip the turbo it WILL cause things to break if you drive it hard, do the 40k service yourself. Dealer service is a ripoff it's a long list of nothing. The S2000 is a very fun car but it's expensive to mod eveything is very pricey (the B-Stock sway bar is 1K), the softop will need to be replaced at some time and I think it's 3K but not sure about that. Check on what ins. will be for you it will be a lot also.

It's a tragic fact of life that one's financial acumen peaks around the same age when they must depend upon their parents for support. It will diminish over time so act now, while you've got the edge because one day you'll be writing those checks instead.

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

The $600 dollar service is not a problem simply that it is expensive, it is more of that I have a hard time justifying putting 600 dollars into a car that is not competitive. When the 600 could go into the cost of swapping cars.

Fortunately I am not in the position of needing something else as a daily driver. Right now all the GTI carries is a floor jack and air compressor on the floor of the backseats, and very rarely do I have to carry anything in it.

To answer Ken's question, the roll bar would be iffy. I assume that the roll bar means no soft top, and in that case no I would not be able to put in the roll bar for a few years.

Another point is that I have not hand the chance to really own a manual transmission car, and it is something that I am finding is hindering me from possibly doing any codrives etc... I just don't feel comfortable driving stick well enough to do it on someone else's car on course. That I feel is something that needs to change.

On the idea of paying down the note, that works as well, but I feel that it would be better to probably play the ForEx market and pick up some gains there then just paying it into the note.

Knowing myself the S2000 would end up being in STR, and selling the modifications on the GTI would help fund this.

In short, I think the long term ownership proposition of a modded GTI with a DSG is not really as good as the S2k.

If anybody has any other ideas or comments, keep them coming. I can afford the general maintenance for the car, I just don't know if the future cost for the VW is worth it when there are alternatives.

I really think the car to have in STR will be the NC Miata. We will know more about that in a few years I may be wrong the MR2 also looks very good on paper. When I was think about going to STR I got to 4K in mods real fast with a lot of mods to go.

You can put a harddog roll bar in the S2000 and keep the soft top.

Robert made a good point about insurance as well - S2ks seem to have relatively high theft/vandalism and accident rates, and I would imagine they have concurrently high insurance rates. Since you're young and male, that may have a significant impact on your monthly ownership outlay. Check with your agent before you commit to anything.

Yep they are amoung the higest cars to insure.

Yeah insurance is about 40 more per month in the s2k, but it is heavily based on age (40 more a month was based on a 2004). So I suppose a first two years AP2 would be the best option. Even though I could just try and hunt down a lower mileage AP1.

Does anyone feel traction control is necessary for a daily driver? (aka 2006 ap2 or newer), everybody says how tail happy an AP1 is, but is that just because people are driving recklessly on the streets?

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Originally Posted by 762

The $600 dollar service is not a problem simply that it is expensive, it is more of that I have a hard time justifying putting 600 dollars into a car that is not competitive. When the 600 could go into the cost of swapping cars.

In short, I think the long term ownership proposition of a modded GTI with a DSG is not really as good as the S2k.

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Quit referring to it as a $600 service... its a $300 service.

You can change your own pollen filter, spark plug wires and engine air filter yourself.

Its the DSG fluid change that will run you the $300.

Yes having a DSG out of warranty would scare me. DSG's are not cheap to fix. Thats why I have a manual.

Honestly if I were in your shoes since 1/2 of the GTI is free and it is a nice car keep it stock and buy an extended warranty for $1300 in a few years... you still have 3 years and 40,000 miles of warranty left! My CU offers a warranty product that if you never use it they will refund your money!

I would get a Miata and go out and have fun. Learn how to drive stick and how to race with a lower HP RWD car.

Miatas are fun, cheap to fix and insure.

S2000's cost more than Corvettes to insure, they can be twitchy at their limits and due to the precise nature of the manual more than a few drivers have overreved due to misshift.

If you sell the GTI and get a S2000 and money shift or blow a clutch the "$600" of maitenance that you are dreading a year from know will see very cheap.

Are you ready to shoulder a $5,000 bill to replace a blown engine due to an overrev?

Saw an s2k at ECR's last toy run over rev and blow smoke on the front straight.

They've also got notoriously weak clutches - maybe not the best car to learn how to drive a manual in?

I don't know if I'd call it a weak clutch they hold up fine but the 2004+ cars have a clutch delay valve that makes them slip on hard starts or hard shifts. Honda did that because the 2000-2003 cars tended to blow the weak diff.

Hmm.. I've had more than one student smoke the OEM AP1 clutch practicing standing starts at PCA autocross schools. I guess it's just a lot more dependent on technique than a typical Mazda clutch.

I didn't know the AP1 would also smoke the clutch on a hard start.

I am not trying to talk you out of an S2000 I love mine just trying to let you know the bad parts also.

An STR NC would be a blast. You should get one so I can drive it.

Yeah, I kinda figured the clutch was just going to be replaced anyway so in my mind I was already figuring that into the cost of the car.

The only downside to the miata is the lack of straight line speed, where the S2000 is about even to a touch faster then my stage 2 GTI.

I'm with XM. Keep the GTI and buy a cheap Miata for racing / manual shifting. Racing isn't about going reeeeeally fast, it's about going relatively fast in your class. An early Miata can be had cheap and then made competitive more cheaply than most other cars. Tires alone are less expensive because of the size.

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Originally Posted by 762

Yeah, I kinda figured the clutch was just going to be replaced anyway so in my mind I was already figuring that into the cost of the car.

The only downside to the miata is the lack of straight line speed, where the S2000 is about even to a touch faster then my stage 2 GTI.

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Published 0-60 and ¼ mile times are great, but keep in mind how the two cars deliver their power.

Cars like the S2000 and RX-8 develop their peak torque at 7000 or more rpm, unlike the motor in your GTI. In regular street driving, neither the S2000 nor the RX-8 are particularly quick cars, unless you flog the living daylights out of them. And that tends to attract a lot of unwanted attention.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the S2000 cockpit – especially the AP1 – is very snug.

I’m not telling you not to buy one, but they aren’t for everyone. I would suggest that if you really think you want one, you should spend some time in one before pulling the trigger. They’re great cars, but they’re small, loud, and a bit high strung.

762,

Given your post above stating that you wouldn't be comfortable driving a stick when you don't drive one yourself I am going to feel safe to assume that your car is has an Automatic Transmission.

I'm not sure how well the torque converter would hold up. I know on older Civics you would be limited to 5-7 PSI max, before you start to have issues with the torque converter on the trans. Again I'm not sure how the VW auto-Trans would hold up to the extra power but that would be something I would take into concideration before I made my decision.

My car has a DSG which is technically a computer controlled manual. It can take just as much as the manual version. I can drive stick, but hard starts and heel toe are two things I just do not have much practice with.

In day to day driving the GTI is faster the S2000, but I can say with very very high confidence that flat out the speeds are almost identical.

My friend has an 06 AP2 which I seem to fit fine in and I have test driven a few as well. So that combined with its reputation for reliability kinda got me interested.

It sounds like you've already made up your mind. Are you just looking for validation from us? :wink:

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Originally Posted by 762

My car has a DSG which is technically a computer controlled manual. It can take just as much as the manual version.

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I don't care what it is or what you call it, if it doesn't require your left foot to change gears, it's an automatic.

Good luck with you decision. I'd keep what you got, but both my cars have 200+K miles.

:drive:The Yaris has excellent straight line speed...compared to an NA.

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Originally Posted by OZMDD

:drive:The Yaris has excellent straight line speed...compared to an NA.

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I don't know what a MT hatchback like yours feels like, but the AT 4 door Yaris rental I had a few weeks ago was a dog. I know it has been a long time since my Miata was at stock power, but I am pretty sure a stock Miata could take it. The Yaris's power (or lack there of) reminded me of a friend's old 3-cylinder Geo metro I drove many years back.

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Originally Posted by altiain

It sounds like you've already made up your mind. Are you just looking for validation from us? :wink:

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Eh, It was more of to see if my idea of trading the car was completely unreasonable. Pretty much everyone on here has had more life experience then myself, so figured I would just see what people had to say.

I just realized you are talking about High Octane's K04 kit! Small world eh? Yeah its a great deal.

That $2,000 on the upgrade will really cost $4,000 by the time you figure all the extras and install that you will need.

That kit should be very reliable long term since it is essentially the same kit as on the Euro ED30 GTI.

However have you driven a chipped GTI? $500 will make your car fly and it is reliable power.

Its as much power as you would ever want in a FWD car imo.

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Originally Posted by altiain

It sounds like you've already made up your mind. Are you just looking for validation from us? :wink:

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I am hearing the same thing. :D

You are balking at putting $300 of maintenance that you will have to do in 1.5 years into a car that you only have to pay half on.

At the same time you have already figured on sinking $1200 into the S2000 for a new clutch today on a car you will have to pay 100% for.

Thanks to your parents you got a new GTI for around $12,000... I would drive the car into the ground as my daily after buying the warranty in 3 years.

I would buy a Miata with cash today and upgrade to a S2000 in a few years when your funds allow.

That way you will have more money for incidentals/repairs/maintenance and more seat time to fully appreciate the S2000.

My car has the following mods XM
APR Stage 2 Software
GHL 3 inch downpipe with high flow cat/followed by full custom bent 3 inch stainless catback.
Evolution Motorsports Intake
Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 17x8 Wheels with 255/40/17 Star Specs
AST 4100 Coilovers w/prototype Vorshlag Camber plates
APR Rear Sway Bar
Hawk HP+ break pads
CIM Vent mounted electronic boost gauge

I know a thing or two about driving a modded GTI

The only reason I was considering the kit was simply if I was going to keep the GTI for another few years I dont know if I could deal with knowing I did not pick up the kit when I had such an amazing opportunity to do so. Plus it makes the GTI faster then an E92 M3 in a straight line, and that is not particularly slow.

Yeah then you should be able to take your friends AP2. :D

I thought you were stock.

Anyway GL with your decision. :drive:

I am Back2VW on DFDubs.

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Originally Posted by 762

My car has the following mods XM
APR Stage 2 Software
GHL 3 inch downpipe with high flow cat/followed by full custom bent 3 inch stainless catback.
Evolution Motorsports Intake
Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 17x8 Wheels with 255/40/17 Star Specs
AST 4100 Coilovers w/prototype Vorshlag Camber plates
APR Rear Sway Bar
Hawk HP+ break pads
CIM Vent mounted electronic boost gauge

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....and you still get beat by a lowly, <100HP Miatae. ::Banana:: Ride the gravy train until someone makes you get off or you decide to do it all on your own.