http://www.scca.com/documents/Fastra...-june-solo.pdf
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Some really interesting stuff in this one - swaybar and crash bolt allowances in Stock, new classes for Street Touring and Street Prepared...
Plenty of shit to argue about! :mrgreen:
I didn't see anything about relaxing the pre-cat requirements in ST* as was mentioned previously. Does that mean its dead, sleeping, or just not on this month's agenda?
That means it is still out for member comment. Once a decision is reached it willbe posted in Fastrack.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
I have written in my letter for support, you should write a letter for support of the proposed ecu rule to allow piggy back ECUs. That way everyone can be happy and the world will be full of sunshine and puppies.
9 is too many... you'll be in over your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by 762
rofl
If I read it correctly the Lotus Elise, and Porsche Cayman (non S) will be in STR at the local level.
Wait what? Must read....
I think it would fall under the under 3.2L NOC (not otherwise classed)
I expect they will be on an exclusion list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
You hope... :drive:Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
+1 ... that would really suck for the NC's running STR.Quote:
Originally Posted by slowchildmiata
Bring em on! Haven't been beat by either one on street tires yet, though the Elise should certainly be capable in full STR trim.
I think the Cayman is just too heavy, and its really built for track speed, not super-tight stuff. Really, its hard to say since so few people develop high-dollar cars like these for autocross-only situations.
Cosmos claims the Lotus needs the grip of R-comps to be able to take advantage of its abilities, and the Cayman won't like being limited to 255's.
STR is the biggest thing at the SCCA since R-comps. They are not going to do anything that would mess it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammm
The Cayman is only about 132 lbs. heaver than my car without my hardtop according to MSN auto. I think I reminder hearing that they have a tall 2nd. gear. That may be the killer for the Cayman in STR, but I may be wrong about that.
I do expect them to be excluded along with the Lotus.
I think I hear pitch forks being sharpened by 1000's of Miata and S2000 owners;)
SCCA mess something up? What are the odds? (cough, wrong-wheel drive, cough, high HP, cough, soft pax, cough)Quote:
Originally Posted by jrj512
Acura NSX anyone? If this goes thru things could get very interesting in STR.
Nope, not interesting at all. R.I.F.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Even if it went through as written--which it won't--the cayman, lotus, or nsx could ONLY be used in STR at a regional event. And only so long as a region chose not to use its discretion to alter the rules:
"As called out in Appendix A, only cars which are specifically classed are eligible for competition at National Tours, Divisionals, and the National Championships. Competitors currently competing in a car that is covered by an "NOC" classing are advised to request specific classing in order to maintain eligibility. "
Now who would spend lotus, cayman s, or nsx money to prep a car for a class they can't compete in anywhere other than regionals (and then only at the discretion of the region). Especially when the cars are nationally competitive already--and quite fun--in stock classing.
sean
I don't see anywhere it says that it's at the discretion of the region.
You can get into an NXS or Elise for well under 30K.
It is not limited to this rule. Everything regional is at the discretion of the region - the region can make/modify classes however it wishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Yep. I could buy an NSX for under 30k. Keeping the thing running is another thing. Vivek's has broken at nearly evey national event it participates in.
It's all moot - this is a granular draft to suggest the direction the STAC thinks might be useful, not to hammer out details. None of these cars you mentioned will be in STR - even locally - ever.
Don't be so sure about that, it looks like a real proposal to me (if nobody yells it's going thru). So far it seems to be very little concerns about the changes to STR.
If the guys in STR are OK with the changes that fine, I will stay in BStock, but if you don't want to be running against who knows what then you need to be sending in your letters. Don't think nobody will spend $40k+ to run a local only class. I know 1 of the locals STR drivers owns (or did) a Cayman, slowchildmiata just got an Elise (I think), and somebody else I know has been wanting an Elise or NSX for a long time.
Don't sit on your hands then yell when someone shows up with an Elise built to the limits of the rules.
I would be surprised if this went thru without an exclusion list, but the proposal does not have one, and very little noise on the various autocross forums about the change in STR. Again if nobody yells they must be happy with the changes.
Robert,
Who cares what someone runs at the Regional level? STR overall will remain the same class at higher levels, specifically because the class is built - and will continue to be built - around an inclusion list. If your car isn't on that list, the only place you could run it under the "NOC" classing would be at a Regional event.
Frankly, if someone brings out an "STR" NSX or Elise locally, more power to 'em. I don't really care about local results, and they wouldn't be able to compete in the car at a level that matters without applying to the SEB for a classification.
STR has been the most successful new class launched in well over a decade. I don't think the SEB would allow something like an STR Elise to screw that all up.
OK, that's fine. I just wanted people to know what's in the proposal. I seem to be the only one worried about what could happen if this goes thru and I don't run in the class so I will not be sending in any letters either.
.
Its an interesting discussion, and I'm glad Robert brought up the potential for chaos. I'll write my letter, just to be on the safe side. Personally, I welcome a wide variety of vehicles in the class. I really don't want to end up with another ST "Spec Civic" type class. Even though the NC is the best car ever made and unbeatable, its good to let others come and play. :)
I don't think the NSX or Cayman are "overdogs" that would wipe-out the NC/NB/S2K, so I'm ok with them. Even though I haven't seen an Elise be dominant on street tires, I would think they can be properly prepped to become unbeatable in STR.
I'd be interested to see an Elise on RS3's. Considering those cheater tires are dang near rcomps ;)
Had one at ER today. Stay tuned for results.Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
LOL I don't have RS3s and rest of car is stock... not even aligned.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
Plus, add in the other STR-legal mods that Nathan's Elise lacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by slowchildmiata
Sorry, thought you were on RS3's. I have been informed that you ran Star Specs. Those are practically snow tires. :)
I still contend that the Elise should be a class-killer in full-STR trim. Its currently competing neck-and-neck with the C6 Z06 in SS at National events. I don't see how it fits with the rest of STR. The NSX and Cayman are more evenly-matched to the class, IMHO, though they are still wicked-fast cars.
Obviously they have no grip. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
I bought it just for STR ;) LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
I told him to after I had a dream that this bulletin would come out. LOL j/k ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by slowchildmiata
Seriously though, I think a fully prepped Elise with a lot more negative camber in the front, stiffer springs paired with some ohlins, penskes, OS Giken LSD etc would be competitive but maybe not a class killer. The issue is still that the car just can't use enough tire under the stock bodywork without cutting. If you could shove 255's all around on an Elise it would be unstoppable but a 205/245 combo really limits the grip. Make everyone run no wider than a 225 or 235 and it would destroy.
You can't modify bodywork in ST outside of rolling the fenders right?
Yep. Fender roll only.
But you could run 225s up front on 15x9 wheels and 255s out back on 17x9 wheels and have a pretty good sixed contact patch on an Elise.
I guess we'll have to see how they do at the Street Tire Challenge this weekend.
225's don't fit on the front of an Elise.Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
This guy disagrees with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower
He's talking about 225/45-15 A6s for ASP, but if anything a 225/45 RS-3 is going to be smaller than a comparable A6, since they tend to run big.Quote:
Originally Posted by trompazo
Read the whole thread...it fits the Exige but not the Elise without modifications. I've discussed this before with a local Exige owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
Ryno wrote:
trompazo wrote:
Fronts 15x8 or 15x9s. 225s or 275s will fit with no rubbing but i prefer the 225s on a 9" wheel
Rear would depend on how wide you want the car to be and how much you want to cut or flare. I use 18x10s and had to flare the fenders 1.25" on each side. I use 255s but despite then being labelled as 255s, they have a wider section width than the 275 - 15s. If you don't want to cut the fenders then 17x9.5 with the standard 245 is as big as you can go.
Becuase you can't up the boost, your limited to header/exhaust/intercooler/airbox/tune. 250-260 whp is about the upper limit on the stock pulley.
Camber you need custom delrin offet bushing in the control arms. This will give you more camber than you need if you do the uppers and lowers (over 4 degrees).
Spring rates are all over the map. 450/600, 450/650, 500/700 are likely what most people run. Your front spring rate will depend on how much or how little front bar you want to run.
Trompazo,
What did you use for your flares? And did you do the front as well?
Have we met? What car # do you run?
I really appreciate all your help.
Ryan J
Ryan,
Yes we have met many times, this is Jay with the Krypton Green Exige from Canada.
The flares were custom. After the clam got destroyed at Packwood in 08 be the wheel coming off, I had a shop that does custom hotrods in fiberglass do custom flares where they cut the fender, pulled it our a bit and then redid all the fibreglass to blend in the arch. My car does not look flared unless you look closely.
The Exige fenders are already flared compared to an Elise so aren't required to be flared on an Exige but likely would be on an Elise, or it may be cheaper to find an Exige front Clam.
I stand corrected. If the Elise is indeed legally limited to 205 front tires, it might not be much of a factor in STR.
From a post by Andy on sccaforums. Looks like the NOC catch-all in STR was a mistake. How I just need to cancel my Elise purchase;)
Well what am I supposed to do now? :-( Crushed my dreams.