sway bar crew: did they actually make you faster?

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Originally Posted by CraiginTX

The Miata has pretty good suspension geometry - and so long as the tires are planted and pretty much perpendicular to the pavement, body roll really doesn't matter. I ran GC 375/250 with stock front sway and no rear sway last year at Hallett and got into the 1:42s with stock power and crappy Yok ES-100s. I'm a track newb also, so I'm sure there's more time to be had.

But I'd venture to say that especially with turbo power, your springs, and azenis - you should be able to drop 3 or 4 seconds (at least) by improving the "nut behind the wheel", as it were. :burnrubr:
Good Luck!

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Craig, I'm glad you posted considering that you and I were novices last year at Hallett. Your car sounds as if it has very close, if not almost exactly the same set up as Trey's car.

Trey, at Hallett last year, I had an intake, ebay header, pulley and my FM exhaust, power wise. Suspension wise, I had the Flex's and the RB bars. I was running Azenis as my tires. My best lap times were in the 1:39's, but I would say that my most consistent time was 1:40. Craig's car and his respectable driving ability are a great example that 2 seconds is to be had.
So......though I haven't ran Hallett CCW since last year, I know that I've increased my lap times and driver skill significantly through more, you guessed it, SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME.

Also, trey doesn't have his turbo installed, yet

Hopefully something will come together this weekend, and I'll get into a better mood because of it.

Where can I see some of this video everyone is talking about, i have terrible luck finding good miata track video to watch.
I would like to see some video of Gary racing.

btw I use mine for street use and like my FM's front and rear....just have not found a tire set-up I like to date. all i have tried suck!

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Originally Posted by Billy Blaze

I would like to see some video of Gary racing.

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Gary setting top time of day at Hallet.

And here is someone in front of Gary. Don't blink... ohhh... you blinked. now he is behind Gary.

And here he goes by the same guy for a second time.

Awesome!, Thanks Titus

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I need to shave some time off my laps times so one day I can sit at the adult table this xmas. My 1:44's are hallett are shamefull.

Did fatter sway bars actually reduce your lap times? I'm happy with f/r bias in pretty much any condition right now (because I'm green and don't know any better), but instructors seem to think its "well balanced" or "easy to drive."

I'm also still really afraid to "track it out in on the curb" before I enter the corner, instead I'm conservative and point the car out to the curbs on exit, after apex.

:burnrubr:

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A few months ago, Flyin Miata sent out a free issue of grassroots motorsports to all of their customers from the last few 2 years or so. In that issue (june '07) was a sway bar test. They tested a Saab 9-2X (subaru wrx with different body) at Ocala Gran Prix. The result after changing the tires was a 1 second decrease in lap times. Then after changing the sway bars another second was taken off of their lap times.

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Originally Posted by johnwag

A few months ago, Flyin Miata sent out a free issue of grassroots motorsports to all of their customers from the last few 2 years or so. In that issue (june '07) was a sway bar test. They tested a Saab 9-2X (subaru wrx with different body) at Ocala Gran Prix. The result after changing the tires was a 1 second decrease in lap times. Then after changing the sway bars another second was taken off of their lap times.

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I do have mad ass body roll:
http://i18.tinypic.com/52vhfte.jpg

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I'm not buying r-compounds any time soon. I have at least one set of Azenis to burn up first, and I'll probably go through one more set before I move up to the adult class. I'm learning here, and I need the "but you're on r-compounds" argument to save some dignity...until I can get home and cry into my pillow.

That's the crappy part about running at Hallett, they don't have many instructors with a miata persuasion. I read back through Danny Sullivan's book over the last few days in an attempt to fill in the gaps. I'd like to get a cam to tape a few laps, but that's not going to happen.

I realized through reading last night that I'm kinda overdriving. Unlike most overdriving, I'm sliding the car more than I have to by using even steering inputs, not progressive. At least, that's my assessment. I think I'll learn alot in a few slow sessions this weekend working on technique.


Anyone have good track vids where I can see some appropriate steering habits?
Thanks for all the help.

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Next time you go to Hallett, ask Connie to see if she can get Kristen Treagor to instruct you for a session, she usually kicks butt in their SM series. Or if I'm there I'll be glad to be an instructor! Not as good of instructor as she would be but they've asked me to help instruct the HST classes before so I'm not too bad!

As mentioned by several already, riding shotgun with someone who is good in a Miata will do wonders for your laptimes. Riding with Keith Verges several yrs ago was the best driving instruction I've had; he could explain it all day but actually riding with him and experiencing it does so much more.

And don't be afraid of the curbing, if you're going as fast as you should be, you should tag the curb at just about every corner.

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Originally Posted by icepenguin66

Next time you go to Hallett, ask Connie to see if she can get Kristen Treagor to instruct you for a session, she usually kicks butt in their SM series. Or if I'm there I'll be glad to be an instructor! Not as good of instructor as she would be but they've asked me to help instruct the HST classes before so I'm not too bad!

As mentioned by several already, riding shotgun with someone who is good in a Miata will do wonders for your laptimes. Riding with Keith Verges several yrs ago was the best driving instruction I've had; he could explain it all day but actually riding with him and experiencing it does so much more.

And don't be afraid of the curbing, if you're going as fast as you should be, you should tag the curb at just about every corner.

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I ran a session with Kristen, and she told me to use the curbs...lol. She didn't really have anything bad to say, so I'm kinda lost on what to do next...aside from wait for more instruction next month.

I don't see how the hell I can get 3 seconds faster. I had fun yesterday, but now I'm frustrated again. :confused:


My seat is bolted to the floor, so I can't really let the instructor drive unless they are my size.

holy shit!!! I should have done this from the start. I have understeer now, but need to tighten the rear. I wanted to from the start, but I couldn't get the links into the rear hole on the sway bar.

Thanks for the advice

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Originally Posted by mr brg

holy shit!!! I should have done this from the start. I have understeer now, but need to tighten the rear. I wanted to from the start, but I couldn't get the links into the rear hole on the sway bar.

Thanks for the advice

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Told Ya!!! Put the rear on the softer setting and the front at full stiff.

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Originally Posted by johnwag

Told Ya!!! Put the rear on the softer setting and the front at full stiff.

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there is only 1 setting in the front, and the car is plowing.

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Originally Posted by mr brg

there is only 1 setting in the front, and the car is plowing.

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Is the rear on full soft?

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Originally Posted by Titus

Is the rear on full soft?

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there are only 2 holes, so yes.

Well, if you can't adjust the front, the rear is on full soft, and you are plowing, you might try the rear bar at the stiff setting, but there are other options.

Here is some good info I found when I was trying different things:

Steady state understeer (All turns or low-speed turns only)-

• If front tire temps are optimum and rears are low, stiffen rear antiroll bar; if front temps are too hot, soften front (most likely).
• If front tire pressures are optimum, decrease rear tire pressure. Increase if chunking occurs.
• Improper front camber.
• Too much body roll at front, causing excessive camber change.

Steady state understeer (High-speed turns only)-

• If front tire temps are OK, increase front downforce.
• If front tire temps are too hot, reduce rear downforce.

Corner entry understeer-

• Front shocks are too soft in bump resistance.
• Too much front toe-in; use a small amount of front toe-out.

Corner exit understeer-

• Rear shocks are too soft in bump.
• Front shocks are too stiff in rebound.

Thanks. This is why I stated that I needed to use the stiff setting...I'm not going to jack with alignment.

Do I have to bend the little tabs on the control arm to get the links connected?

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Originally Posted by Titus

Well, if you can't adjust the front, the rear is on full soft, and you are plowing, you might try the rear bar at the stiff setting, but there are other options.

Here is some good info I found when I was trying different things:

Steady state understeer (All turns or low-speed turns only)-

• If front tire temps are optimum and rears are low, stiffen rear antiroll bar; if front temps are too hot, soften front (most likely).
• If front tire pressures are optimum, decrease rear tire pressure. Increase if chunking occurs.
• Improper front camber.
• Too much body roll at front, causing excessive camber change.

Steady state understeer (High-speed turns only)-

• If front tire temps are OK, increase front downforce.
• If front tire temps are too hot, reduce rear downforce.

Corner entry understeer-

• Front shocks are too soft in bump resistance.
• Too much front toe-in; use a small amount of front toe-out.

Corner exit understeer-

• Rear shocks are too soft in bump.
• Front shocks are too stiff in rebound.

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I agree, put the rear bar on full stiff and realign the car with some front toe out. Also stiffen your rear shocks a bit if you can, should make it a bit looser. I have the front bar at full soft and factory rear bar and I can still get the car to rotate at will.

I ended up running soft in the rear, and didn't need any adjustment. I have a little lift-off oversteer, and the car is more easily steered with the throttle now coming out of 2, 4, and 9. I ran a 1:40.943 on my best lap, so that's a full second improvement on a track which had 8" or rain last night. It was super slick all day, but my lap times progressively decreased. I wonder much my 185mm wide Azenis are affecting lap times over 205's?

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I ended up running soft in the rear, and didn't need any adjustment. I have a little lift-off oversteer, and the car is more easily steered with the throttle now coming out of 2, 4, and 9. I ran a 1:40.943 on my best lap, so that's a full second improvement on a track which had 8" or rain last night. It was super slick all day, but my lap times progressively decreased. I wonder much my 185mm wide Azenis are affecting lap times over 205's?

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Falken doesn't offer a 185mm wide Azenis. The smallest size available is a 195/60/14. If you have a 185mm tire with a "flaken" logo, they might be knock offs. ;):D

Congrats on the time. Now get some wider frikkin' wheels and tires already. Geez.

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Originally Posted by johnwag

Falken doesn't offer a 185mm wide Azenis. The smallest size available is a 195/60/14. If you have a 185mm tire with a "flaken" logo, they might be knock offs. ;):D

Congrats on the time. Now get some wider frikkin' wheels and tires already. Geez.

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oops, yeah, 195. I have another set of 15" NB wheels to pick up...but I'm going to burn up what's left of these azenis and see if I want to jump on the r-compounds or not.

I think I can still get faster out there. I'm working on #6 and #10 particularly. I played the trial and error game on those 2 corners with entry speed, trail braking (and staying on the track), where to accelerate.

I also learned that #4 needed to be taken wider, tighten harder, earlier, and then I can get on #5 so much harder. I was exiting #5 at 76mph...I don't get the car over 80mph anywhere else on the track, so I'm very happy with that.

I think with more rubber on the track, and working on #6 and #10 I can cut .8 off and get into a 1:39. Actually, I can't think of a better way to finish off my stay in Oklahoma than clicking off a 1:39.