ER Challenge Cup #3, Sun 5/23/10, Pennington Field

You know what might be a neat idea? I really like the idea of the PAX runs, but I also like the idea of saying that you get "six runs," rather than "four normal runs plus two PAX runs, but the two PAX runs will not net you anything if you are new to the sport or in Tire."

Instead, make all six runs count towards your trophy time for the day. Currently, even if you do not elect PAX runs, you still have to work for six runs. This way, you always run six and work six.

If you pay PAX, then you last two times will ALSO count towards PAX. Or make all six runs count towards your trophy time and your PAX time, if you buy into PAX.

I didn't know a Miata would float.

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Last AX meeting I attended I got a job with that AX group, I'm not going to make that same mistake twice! :wink:

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Darn, you figured us out. Mark him off the list. Maybe someone else will show at the meeting.

I really have nothing against that interweb thingy. I just need Al G. to show me how to use it.

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Originally Posted by nomadtrash

I am also interested in online registration.
I would like to explore the benefits it gives to the entrant.
1. Knowing who is already signed up?
2. Not having to wait in lline for 5 minutes on Sunday morning?
3. Electronic payment?
I can name quite a few but would like to know what makes it desirable for you.

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For me, it's mainly to avoid the long line(s) at the trailer and to be able to pay electronically.

We know most folks want to work first and run second, and those 1st heat jobs go fast. The other clubs have set classes to run in set heats at any given event. By having the registration list beforehand, the worker chief can take care of that before Sunday morning. This way everyone gets to work first heat at one time or another.

As for PAX runs, those of us on Street Tires (and it's a growing group) typically have no chance to win any monies. I usually pass on them for that reason....I don't need 2 more runs at PMS for an extra $10.

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Originally Posted by nomadtrash

I really have nothing against that interweb thingy. I just need Al G. to show me how to use it.

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So why aren't you guys doing it already?

The convenience part is the key reason I like the on-line reg and use it.

Plus on your side think of how much easier it makes it on you dedicated staff of people at the event if you had 80-90% of all the entrants all signed up and ready to play in advance. Not everyone can commit to a season pass so this gives us another option. Walk-ups are still cool but you'd have a better grasp on what true attendance would be in advance of an event.

Equipe Rapide is a great Autocross group it always has been! You guys just seem to be a bit behind the curve compared to others in the Metroplex today. Some of your younger competitors are interweb savvy and even have new fangled cordless phones that can make calls and surf the interweb without wires or even an operator! ;)

http://hunter4086.files.wordpress.co...6/operator.jpg

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Originally Posted by sammm

As for PAX runs, those of us on Street Tires (and it's a growing group) typically have no chance to win any monies. I usually pass on them for that reason....I don't need 2 more runs at PMS for an extra $10.

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It would be nice if the Street Tire cars had a fair chance in the PAX. I think 3% is a good number for the differance between R-comps and Street Tires.

Maybe if we adjusted the PAX for the street tire cars by 2.5% ( a little low so the street tires would have no advantage over the R-comps) we could get more of the less hard core autocrossers to come out.
They would still get beat, but may not feel like the game is fixed for the R-comp cars. (not saying it's fixed, we know the rules when we sign up. Just the guys on Streets have no chance)

+1 on the preregistration and on fixing the Rapid Pax.

I generally pay the $10 for the 2 extra runs, but I always feel a little cheated by it. Why not give everyone 6 runs and make the $10 optional to be in contention for the money? As was mentioned before, we are all stuck working the extra runs, so why not run as many as you work for one entry fee?

I like the option of paying online, but also agree that its nice to wait until arriving to pay, if plans are iffy. I do think work assignments should be primarily class-based.
I've enjoyed ER for the past 2 seasons, and have run more of their events than any other club, but am not sure I'll do as many this year because of the Pennington-fixation and the Rapid Pax issue.

Why not have a tire class pax? They pay in tire class, they split the pot.

Some ER History.
Just so everyone understands why things are the way they are. (Kind of like SCCA solo rules
you got to know the history to understand them.)

First, ER has been ahead of the game when it comes to the internet and trying things new.
ER was one of the first clubs in the country to try this new thing called the internet. They
have owned the domain name autocross.com before most people even knew what a modem was.

Autocross.com - ER offered website to other clubs around the country for years before it became so
easy for anyone to set up a site.

ER tried online registration before there were online registration sites! I know because I wrote it.
At that time ER was lucky to get 3 people to sign up for an event online.

Rapide PAX was very popular 13 years ago and is still popular today. Having Rapide PAX requires two entries per driver. Something that the current online registration sites might have issues with since the entry price is a different price for each entry and one depends on the other.

A better idea came along. Another ER idea. Pre-pay for the year and get a discount. Wow, this got a great
response and still does. About 1/2 of the entries for ER and SCCA come from the pre-pay programs.

Is it time for ER to look at online again? I think so but you have to find a way to handle the PAX entry that
creates two separate entries for the computer. Remember the entries can be in different classes.

There are people that refuse to sign up online for one reason or another.

ER is progressive for a conservative club. Remember the club is over 40 years old. Sometimes
you just have to try ideas more than once.

ER will have another first as far as I know. Realtime wireless current results during the event on your handheld devices.
It may not be at this next the event but real soon.

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Originally Posted by general default

ER will have another first as far as I know. Realtime wireless current results during the event on your handheld devices.
It may not be at this next the event but real soon.

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Mikey likey!!

I appreciate the informed response. Still, how about the ideas to update Rapid Pax?

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Originally Posted by ken o

Why not have a tire class pax? They pay in tire class, they split the pot.

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This is something we've talked about, but this will lower the payouts in the regular pax.

I (and other, smarter people than me on the sccaforum) have looked at a pax modifier for people in the T class. I based it on a 2 second differential between r-comps and street tires on a 60 second course. Looking at last years results there was only one event where it would have moved someone in T into the money. This year the T class in SCCA and ER has seemed to have gained popularity (I know I enjoy the competition better, even if I have to beat Robert or someone in a DS car by 3 raw seconds to beat them in PAX <grumble>) so the results might be different this year.

General default, you da man! Ahhh, what is this thing you call a handheld device?

By the way, all of these are discussed in a public forum of the ER Board of Directors meetings. There is *always* a period where members can bring things like this up to the board. It nice when people have proposals though (maybe with an excel spreadsheet to back it up in the case of a "RT" modifier ;)).

By the way the next BOD meeting is tomorrow at 7pm at:
Marshall's BBQ
1855 E. Rosemeade Pkwy.
Carrollton, TX 75007

If you don't want BBQ, in June the BOD meeting is a FREE event for members at Amazing Jakes in Plano

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June 29, 2010
Amazing Jake's
831 N. Central Expwy
Plano, TX 75075
As a thank you to our members Equipe Rapide invites you to attend our June 29th board of directors meeting at Amazing Jakes in Plano. http://www.amazingjakes.com/ The meeting will include all you can eat buffet, go carts, bumper cars, laser tag, putt-putt golf, rock climbing wall, and games. This event is free to Equipe Rapide members and families who RSVP prior to June 25th.Please e-mail me with your RSVP -- with Andy, [email protected])

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In STU on a 60 second course I would PAX with a 50.64. In TBSP I would PAX with a 49.9.
Looking at results from #1, I would move from 13th with a 53.8 STU to 5th 51.8 TBSP.

you're special of course, so the rule would be written different for you <neener>.

I already have enough issues with the "STU" Civic that move to ST for Pax (which is legal, but it still frustrates me [mostly because they beat me]).

This is also the reason why you can't just take 3% off the pax for "T" folks. It's not fair. Do you think that the guys running r-comps that would be bumped wouldn't bitch? Someone is going to feel like they've been given the shaft either way.

Also I think that I'd proposed the rule to be "you can only run in 'RT' if you ran in 'T' for your regular runs," but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by general default

ER will have another first as far as I know. Realtime wireless current results during the event on your handheld devices.
It may not be at this next the event but real soon.

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I also like that idea.

I know a lot of people that would be interested in ER, ask the number of runs, and then lose interest when I say, "Four regular runs and two PAX runs." However, I think they would more likely maintain interest if I said, "Six runs, plus you can sign up for PAX money."

Two of the primary reasons why people go to BMW and NTAXS events are the easier classing and eight runs. It would be tough to restructure your classing, but you can easily mitigate the latter by making all six runs count towards the trophy time.

I have been to other club's meetings, so I know how they run. I have no desire to attend any additional club's meetings. You wanted input on why your last even't turn-out was so low, so I am providing some ideas to rectify it. As ER board members, you can represent us in your meetings by discussing the feedback you have received from this forum.

The list of past ER innovations are great, and I respect them, but Cord was very innovative, too. You can't live in the past.

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Originally Posted by jrj512

The list of past ER innovations are great, and I respect them, but Cord was very innovative, too. You can't live in the past.

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Oh snap! LOL! :clap:

You guys can figure out how to do Realtime wireless results but can't do on-line registration? I'm thinking there may be something more to this story, lets review from earlier in this post. ;-)

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

Sarcasm? Trust me, we're pushing for online prereg. There is some... ahem... dissent on that matter....

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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ;)