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I wasn't just talking about performance. S2000 has more usable power to get up to cruising speed, more interior room, better brakes, better crash safety, better a/c and heater, quieter, better stereo, A power top, more trunk space, better headlights etc etc. The only reason you'd get a Miata for the same price is that you like Miatas.Quote:
Originally Posted by black roadster
Honestly who cares? It's a nice ride, someone will buy it. And you aren't going to win the argument for Vtack on a miata board.😁
Like all Hondas, the stook has no soul though. Sorry you don't "get it" but the Miata inspires passion more than the stook which is why the Miata has outlasted all it's competitors.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower
Let's look at the contenders that tried to dethrone the Miata or at least beat it at it's own game.
Mercury Capri - discontinued
Honda Del Sol - discontinued
Toyota MR-S - discontinued
BMW Z3 (4 cyl) - discontinued
Pontiac Solstice - discontinued
Saturn Sky - discontinued
Even the S2000 while not a direct competitor - discontinued
Other cars either not available in the states or priced above the Miata
MG TF - discontinued
Lotus Elan (2nd Gen) - discontinued
In fact, the "sub-par" Miata has out lasted every direct competitor. It has also received numerous accolades from the automotive journalists and is the best selling sports car of all time according to the Guinness Book of World Records.
Geez I didn't say that the Miata is not a good car, hell I just bought another one a few weeks ago since I had so much fun with my 93LE. I just said for the SAME PRICE you'd be stupid to buy a NA Miata instead of a S2000.Quote:
Originally Posted by black roadster
BTW the Z3 became the Z4, not discontinued. That's like saying the Miata is discontinued because a NC is a MX-5. The S2000 was never intended to be a long running production car either but still sold 112K which isn't bad.
M3 since 1986 and still evolving.
http://www.caranddriver.com/photo-ga...car-and-driver
hmm... I would not say kick the crap out of a NA Miata... I have no probs being within half a second of the fastest s2000s at the autoxs in my NA's if not running a shade faster sometimes...is the s2000 nicer? Yes... More hp? Yes.. Would I buy a s2000 for 8k if I had to pick between a NA or the s2k? Maybe... But still not kick the crap out of...just my 2 centsQuote:
Originally Posted by CosmosMpower
That's on a small autocross course at different car prep levels. Real world acceleration, braking, road course, national level autocross no competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsrturbo
If you took the fastest STS NA Miata (there was no STR NA to compare, for good reason) from nationals and put it into STR it would've barely been in the trophies 2 seconds back of the winning S2k. If you took the national champion E stock NA and put it in B stock it would've barely been in the trophies as well 3+ seconds back of the winning S2k as well. 2-3 seconds is pretty significant.
Indeed. The fastest way to see how slow you are is to go to Nationals.
Ah, yes... what we have here is a classic internet phenomenon.
Well it's not a for sale post (at least not for real anyway) so might as well have a lively debate!Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyrix
An NA took 2nd in STR in B-ville last weekend. That throws everything into a tizzy. As much as I love the S2K, I'm not sure its the world-beater you seem to think. The top STR drivers have so far gone with the S2K primarily because there is more development existing for it, by their own admission (I talked to a bunch of them at Nats) and most serious observers say the jury is still very "out" on what car will ultimately prove the best.
That's autocross, but nobody was out there spanking me on the track in an S2K the last few times I've done TT's/track days either, so I'm beginning to doubt that they are able to win on sheer power in that venue. Maybe altian or gernby will let me do some back-to-back testing in their car to let me find out what its really like. I've never driven one in anger. On paper, it ought to kick an NC's ass, but I've yet to see it happen anywhere but the Tri-State in B-ville in 2011, and that was a drag race start. I will give it to the S2K in drag racing over all miatas, assuming they don't break. :)
Of course, an Elise and a GT-R ought to be faster than an NC too... ::Banana::
Burn!?Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
Waiting for Godwin's Law to come into effect.
That's because they haven't let you out of green yet ;) 20 bucks Iain would spank you at MSR in his S2000 but probably not as bad as I did like at the PCA TT.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
Btw the Elise was faster than the NC at every Ntaxs event last year except the first event where I had a faster raw time but coned.
Are you still describing your melted piston? Everyone's heard the story twice now hush up ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by slowchildmiata
True, the supercharged Elise on race tires was a little faster than the NC at some events. :)
If you think the S2k has no soul, then you've never really wound one out on a track or back road. Typically I hear this comment from NA Miata owners defending their cars "character" - i.e., why it has the stopping distance of a fully loaded semi, a chassis like a wet noodle, and all the power of an MG with bad carbs. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by black roadster
Seriously though, Miatas and S2000s are both fantastic cars. The S2000 is a more clinical, digital approach to the classic lightweight roadster than a Miata, and this turns some people off. But make no mistake, it is still a car for people who are passionate about driving.
I agree with Mike's comments that STR is still wide open. Autocross tends to be as much about contact patch to weight ratio more than power to weight ratio, which is why lightweight cars work so well. The NC is ~200 pounds lighter than an S2k and wears the same size tires in STR, which negates a lot of the S2k's power advatage. Also, the cars make similar peak torque, which means in-gear acceleration at typical autocross speeds is not that different. Give the S2k a few places where it can open up on the big cam though, and it's not as much of a contest. See Blytheville 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
FWIW Mike, the times you turn on the track are very similar to what I turned in the RX-8. The S2k has more top end power, the same contact patch width, better gearing, and is 200 pounds lighter than the RX-8. I expect it to be faster, apples to apples. Unfortunately, I've never tracked the S2k with the ASTs and RS-3s, and I likely won't until next year some time, as I promised the wife I wouldn't track my daily driver any more while we're a one income family.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
I tell you what though - I AM planning on being at the PCA Time Trial in December. I'd be more than happy to swap cars with you for a few runs, so you can see what an S2k feels like. They're fun to drive.
I'm setting my NA up for STR now.. Just to see how far a NA can go...I'll do the little NA justice! Ohh yes I will
They need more instructors for the five star ford event at ECR on the 17th. Maybe you could get a hall pass?Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
The S2000 is prettier.
:snack: