Equipe Rapide Challenge Cup #8 October 16th, 2011

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10-12-2011, 08:17 AM
ratt_finkel

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxCoyote

MM,

At the bus lot or pennington or even lone star it is heat cycles that make the rubber harder over time not tire wear. At MW the wear on the tires is visible and decidedly uneven. You can see it from run to run. Race tires are even more prone to this than DOT R's When I ran DOT R's last year at MW the wear was very manageable. MW pretty much ruins a set of race tires in one event, maybe two at most. That's why running older tires is more cost effective. It probably costs me a second or more but on an 80-90 second course I can try to find a way to make it up. Or I could drive like Andy and not go fast enough to spin:D

Actually, LSP is pretty hard on tires too. Any time you have exposed aggregate it chews up tires. Mix that with loose gravel and dirt and you have an even more pronounced effect.
PMS actually is pretty easy on tires. But that is course dependent. The last event there we saw very noticeable wear on the front tires. Primarily due to the slow tight sections which required lots of steering input followed by high slip angles. I'd say I lost about 20+ runs on those front tires, when in reality it was 12 very short runs. This is actually one of the reasons Madarash left the event. He knew the tire wear he would see.
10-12-2011, 08:52 AM
CosmosMpower

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratt_finkel

Actually, LSP is pretty hard on tires too. Any time you have exposed aggregate it chews up tires. Mix that with loose gravel and dirt and you have an even more pronounced effect.
PMS actually is pretty easy on tires. But that is course dependent. The last event there we saw very noticeable wear on the front tires. Primarily due to the slow tight sections which required lots of steering input followed by high slip angles. I'd say I lost about 20+ runs on those front tires, when in reality it was 12 very short runs. This is actually one of the reasons Madarash left the event. He knew the tire wear he would see.

+1 LSP sucks on tires...
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/Jkan2001/photo.jpg
10-12-2011, 09:12 AM
Robert

I love guys running supper soft tires then complaining about high ware. My solution to not getting very many runs out of a set of tires is running RS’3s or Star Specs.

Still good point about not running the course through the worse parts of the lot. Jrj512 does a good job of keeping us out of it as much as possible.
10-12-2011, 09:33 AM
CosmosMpower

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I love guys running supper soft tires then complaining about high ware. My solution to not getting very many runs out of a set of tires is running RS’3s or Star Specs.

Still good point about not running the course through the worse parts of the lot. Jrj512 does a good job of keeping us out of it as much as possible.

Umm yeah that damage was done in 4 runs. I wouldn't call that normal "wear" either, that's a chunk that delaminated from the carcass. The replacement pair I've gotten so far has lasted me 8 runs X 6 events with hardly any wear at TMS and MW. My car can use a set of R comps up to 100 runs at MW, PMS, TMS and still have tread until they are heat cycled out and thrown away.
10-12-2011, 09:51 AM
TxCoyote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I love guys running supper soft tires then complaining about high ware. My solution to not getting very many runs out of a set of tires is running RS’3s or Star Specs.

Still good point about not running the course through the worse parts of the lot. Jrj512 does a good job of keeping us out of it as much as possible.

I have little choice on my car. Mineral Wells eats tread, I have only run a couple of events at Lone Star so my sample size is small. Everywhere else is Heat cycles as the measurement point not rubber.
10-12-2011, 09:51 AM
Robert

I have to call BS on that. If that tire only had 4 runs on it you may need to look at your driving style.
10-12-2011, 09:57 AM
Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxCoyote

I have little choice on my car. Mineral Wells eats tread, I have only run a couple of events at Lone Star so my sample size is small. Everywhere else is Heat cycles as the measurement point not rubber.

Fair enough, It’s OK for you to complain;)
10-12-2011, 09:58 AM
TxCoyote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

Fair enough, It’s OK for you to complain;)

Lot of good it does. You guys could contribute to my tire fund..........;):clap::D
10-12-2011, 10:01 AM
nomadtrash

I ran E-Prepared on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years and E-Modified on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years. I would get about 10 events on a set of tires (5 events with a co-driver). Half the events were at Mineral Wells and half were at Pennington with a few bus lot and other sites sprinkled in. I never had any issues with Mineral Wells eating the tires any faster than any other site. I did notice that there was not a lot of wear at the bus lot because there was no actual grip at the bus lot.
10-12-2011, 10:19 AM
CosmosMpower

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I have to call BS on that. If that tire only had 4 runs on it you may need to look at your driving style.

You can call BS all you want but the exact same replacement tire has faired much better at the other venues. I have the proof and 5 FTD's this year which is 5 more than you. I think my driving style is fine.
10-12-2011, 10:30 AM
nomadtrash

After 3 events at Pennington.

http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/53...600x600Q85.jpg
10-12-2011, 10:59 AM
Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I have the proof and 5 FTD's this year which is 5 more than you.

Of couse I am driving a B-stock car on street tires, you are driving a ASP car on race tires.

I tend to agree with nomadtrash. If we ran the same type of courses at Pennington as we do at Mineral Wells we would see simular tire ware. The ware would look a little different, Mineral Wells tends to take out small chunks where Pennington is more even.
10-12-2011, 11:37 AM
TxCoyote

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadtrash

I ran E-Prepared on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years and E-Modified on Hoosier R35 slicks for 5 years. I would get about 10 events on a set of tires (5 events with a co-driver). Half the events were at Mineral Wells and half were at Pennington with a few bus lot and other sites sprinkled in. I never had any issues with Mineral Wells eating the tires any faster than any other site. I did notice that there was not a lot of wear at the bus lot because there was no actual grip at the bus lot.

I'm sure the tires were as hard as the one's I use at MW. I split mine because I choose to maximize my grip elsewhere. I can run 10events on a set but then they would have much less grip when I used them at the Bus Lot or any other venue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I tend to agree with nomadtrash. If we ran the same type of courses at Pennington as we do at Mineral Wells we would see simular tire ware. The ware would look a little different, Mineral Wells tends to take out small chunks where Pennington is more even.

You are making our point here Robert. MW courses are 2-3x as long as Pennington, therefore 2-3 more wear per run. That's what makes them chunk and go away faster.
10-12-2011, 02:49 PM
OZMDD

There are tons of good events at TMS, so people with serious tire wear concerns ought to try to run there most of the time. We all know that MW is a rough surface and has 90+ sec courses. PMS gets 30-40 sec courses on grippy concrete. LSP has been used how many times this year?

Cosmos- the FTD comment is obnoxious and completely flawed. You have FTD's because you bought them. Pax your runs and its a different story. If you want to only run with clubs that let you class your car against cars that are totally outgunned by yours, that's cool, but bragging about it is pretty silly. By that logic, I should claim that I'm outdriving all the NA drivers in Class 1/X?? C'mon man, you know better.
10-12-2011, 03:00 PM
TxCoyote

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZMDD

There are tons of good events at TMS, so people with serious tire wear concerns ought to try to run there most of the time. We all know that MW is a rough surface and has 90+ sec courses. PMS gets 30-40 sec courses on grippy concrete. LSP has been used how many times this year?

Or run it on hard tires and know you are giving up a second or two.
10-12-2011, 03:41 PM
SixAce

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadtrash

The NTAXS is a good warm-up for the real thing on Sunday.

The above quote, and the rest of this thread proves that without a healthy and on-going Track vs. Ax argument, the Ax crew will start feeding on each other. Just sayin..
10-12-2011, 03:45 PM
POS Racing

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixAce

The above quote, and the rest of this thread proves that without a healthy and on-going Track vs. Ax argument, the Ax crew will start feeding on each other. Just sayin..

:clap:
10-12-2011, 04:45 PM
CosmosMpower

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZMDD

There are tons of good events at TMS, so people with serious tire wear concerns ought to try to run there most of the time. We all know that MW is a rough surface and has 90+ sec courses. PMS gets 30-40 sec courses on grippy concrete. LSP has been used how many times this year?

Cosmos- the FTD comment is obnoxious and completely flawed. You have FTD's because you bought them. Pax your runs and its a different story. If you want to only run with clubs that let you class your car against cars that are totally outgunned by yours, that's cool, but bragging about it is pretty silly. By that logic, I should claim that I'm outdriving all the NA drivers in Class 1/X?? C'mon man, you know better.

Ok raw times don't matter let's all play in a land of made up times computed with a magical formula decided by one man that changes yearly. That makes a lot more sense.

I bought the Lotus because it's fun to drive if I wanted to buy every ftd I would be in an Atom DP super stalker or similar. If I brought my car to SCCA locally I'd be racing against....no one in my class. Plus I'd be standing around all day for 3 runs, and I just don't like autocross that much to do that anymore which is why I only run with NTAXS, LSCBMWCCA and similar format clubs.
10-12-2011, 05:12 PM
cone-cerned

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixAce

The above quote, and the rest of this thread proves that without a healthy and on-going Track vs. Ax argument, the Ax crew will start feeding on each other. Just sayin..

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Racing

:clap:

+1 :clap:
10-12-2011, 05:14 PM
TxCoyote

I'd have to disagree Cosmo. Your Lotus is a Factory race car with lots of development $$$ in it's chassis. A SuperStalker is not going to handle nearly as well despite a couple hundred pounds. I have a solid axle and nowhere near the F/R weight bias you have. You are a very good driver but you get FTD so often cause your car is exceptional and also costs a lot more than a Stalker. In fact you could build 2 Superstalkers for the cost of your car. The only thing better than your car is your ability to make excuses. The funny part is you make excuses for success! You have the best (or at least top 3) car, you are one of the top drivers. I'd suggest that you compete in STR with a Miata or something similar and see if you win every time in that class or get FTD. That'll prove (or not) your claims.
10-12-2011, 05:31 PM
nomadtrash

I hope you all can see the sarcasm in my remarks. DFW has several excellent clubs and a wide variety of formats to choose from. I wouldn't intentionally insult any of the clubs out there, except for the BMW club.
10-12-2011, 05:41 PM
TxCoyote

We know you're cute and cuddly. Thi is just a good spirited discussion. I am not mad at anyone just debating a point. I am a master debater:rolleyes:
10-12-2011, 05:46 PM
CosmosMpower

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxCoyote

I'd have to disagree Cosmo. Your Lotus is a Factory race car with lots of development $$$ in it's chassis. A SuperStalker is not going to handle nearly as well despite a couple hundred pounds. I have a solid axle and nowhere near the F/R weight bias you have. You are a very good driver but you get FTD so often cause your car is exceptional and also costs a lot more than a Stalker. In fact you could build 2 Superstalkers for the cost of your car. The only thing better than your car is your ability to make excuses. The funny part is you make excuses for success! You have the best (or at least top 3) car, you are one of the top drivers. I'd suggest that you compete in STR with a Miata or something similar and see if you win every time in that class or get FTD. That'll prove (or not) your claims.

I would run a Faster time in your car than mine every day of the week. EM is way faster than asp or ss Elises. I did race in a "spec" class in s2000 and won a season in it. No thanks on a STR Miata I'd rather sit at home and watch TV. Enough crying about owning slow cars, don't like it? Buy a faster car.
10-12-2011, 05:46 PM
nomadtrash

If you aren't mad yet then we will have to try harder. You know, E-Mod is for factory built cars that have been modified beyond the Prepared rules. Exactly which factory did a Lotus 7 (stalker) come from? I think it is a cheater car that should be in B-Mod.
10-12-2011, 06:20 PM
TxCoyote

Cosmo stop bragging. You've proven your fast. But saying your car is slow is ridiculous. Keep trying Andy. My car is nowhere near a B mod. It's street legal even.
10-12-2011, 07:14 PM
CosmosMpower

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxCoyote

Cosmo stop bragging. You've proven your fast. But saying your car is slow is ridiculous. Keep trying Andy. My car is nowhere near a B mod. It's street legal even.

Ok, the car is fast. I'm just messing with you ;) Would seriously like to do a back to back comparison between our 2 cars sometime if you're interested.
10-12-2011, 07:26 PM
TxCoyote

I would but I don't think I fit in your car. I do fit in the Evora though. I'd let you take a run or two in mine if you want.
10-12-2011, 07:46 PM
TexasStig

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Ok, the car is fast. I'm just messing with you ;) Would seriously like to do a back to back comparison between our 2 cars sometime if you're interested.

What, at AutoX? Everyone know the only real way to test a car's speed is on the track.

... in the rain

... where the driver must obtain a serum to save the life of the mayor whose village is in danger of falling into the hands of the man who poisoned him.**

---------------------------------------------
** Speed Racer
Season 1, Episode 34 – Aired: 1/12/1968The Race for Life
10-12-2011, 08:25 PM
TxCoyote

Not sure what to say about that one Kevin, other than you have a little too much free time on your hands.
10-12-2011, 08:39 PM
OZMDD

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasStig

What, at AutoX? Everyone know the only real way to test a car's speed is on the track.

... in the rain

... where the driver must obtain a serum to save the life of the mayor whose village is in danger of falling into the hands of the man who poisoned him.**

---------------------------------------------
** Speed Racer
Season 1, Episode 34 – Aired: 1/12/1968The Race for Life

Obscure KB FTW!!

I didn't win last weekend, maybe I should add a S/C and race tires too...
10-12-2011, 08:57 PM
CosmosMpower

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZMDD

Obscure KB FTW!!

I didn't win last weekend, maybe I should add a S/C and race tires too...

You can put lipstick on a pig...
10-12-2011, 09:54 PM
OZMDD

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

You can put lipstick on a pig...

...and it'll still be more comfortable than a Lotus - 7 or Elige! :D
10-12-2011, 10:09 PM
slowchildmiata

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZMDD

...and it'll still be more comfortable than a Lotus - 7 or Elige! :D

Miatas are just too big.
10-12-2011, 10:42 PM
cone-cerned

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

You can put lipstick on a pig...

Or polish a turd!
10-12-2011, 11:29 PM
Davidss

IMPORTANT MINERAL WELLS UPDATE:

When at Mineral Wells site please stay away from the business that is on site. The business has changed owners and installed a security system with motion detectors that monitor the shaded awning. If anyone goes under the awning the alarm goes off and the cops show up.
10-13-2011, 05:03 AM
nomadtrash

I'm not bailing David out of Mineral Wells jail again, or anyone else.
10-13-2011, 10:05 AM
ratt_finkel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidss

IMPORTANT MINERAL WELLS UPDATE:

When at Mineral Wells site please stay away from the business that is on site. The business has changed owners and installed a security system with motion detectors that monitor the shaded awning. If anyone goes under the awning the alarm goes off and the cops show up.

I'm guessing David knows from experience!

P.S. Does this mean no more free water from the hose?
10-13-2011, 11:29 AM
OZMDD

Depends on whose "hose"...
10-14-2011, 05:30 AM
nomadtrash

Online registration closes tonight at midnight. On-Site registration is available from 8-9 on Sunday morning.
10-14-2011, 07:48 AM
altiain

The most important question: Will Jo-Jo "King of the Cone Dodgers and FTD FTW" be there signing autographs? If so, I might bother getting out of bed. Otherwise, forget it.

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