Forced Induction Options

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Originally Posted by smartmx5

blah blah blah, bliggity blig ow, ziggity zig ow,
Would the car overheat?
Wouldn't it make sense that if I add forced induction to my car, I would probably be faster than my 1:26s?

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Your car is a spec or just a track car? I'm guessing track car if you want to add boost. There are plenty of track dog racing customers in the area that track their cars with ZERO overheating issues. Asking if they drive as hard as you is
kind of relative, and hard to answer.
If you want 40whp more and don't wanna overheat, stay n/a. Run megasquirt on your car, build a 99 head, do bolt ons and see where you go from there. Add more mechanical grip, put the car on a diet and drive faster.

Are you left foot braking?

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Originally Posted by johnwag

Your car is a spec or just a track car? I'm guessing track car if you want to add boost. There are plenty of track dog racing customers in the area that track their cars with ZERO overheating issues. Asking if they drive as hard as you is
kind of relative, and hard to answer.
If you want 40whp more and don't wanna overheat, stay n/a. Run megasquirt on your car, build a 99 head, do bolt ons and see where you go from there. Add more mechanical grip, put the car on a diet and drive faster.

Are you left foot braking?

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John,
Thanks for asking. I do not mean to highjack the OP thread. Let me answer your questions: 1) My car is a SM and I want to add boost. 2) Yes, I left foot brake like a mofo!!(I maybe to old to say that;) )

Per my previous posts, I understand TDR kits seem to not have overheating issues. Again, per my previous posts, I would need to go and speak with Gary about that. I do know that many turboed miatas have overheating issues. From ALL the reading I have done so far, especially on the nat'l miata board, many boosters have overheating issues, turbo or s/c. My basic understanding is lower your HP and the issues seem to subside. I would love your input to help me understand as well get an idea on what to do!! I like the '99 head idea. I may need to add wider tires, but I could not lose to much more weight on the car. I could shed a few pounds though!!:rolleyes: As for driving the car as hard as me, I can let you know I run at the top of the rpm gauge most of the track and have put down some pretty decent SM times (NOT RECORD BREAKING TIMES).

If I went the M/S route, '99 head, and bolt-ons (explain to me understand), how reliable would the motor be at that point?
TIA,
Alan

I can say that I don't have any over heating issues with my turbo setup. But I was only running 5PSI. Oil temps never got over 210 and water temps stayed steady around 180-190 the entire day. (After adding an oil cooler)

Before adding the oil cooler I was about 220-230 in oil temp and around 200 on water temps. Also running 5PSI

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Originally Posted by smartmx5

So do you have a constructive answer on the overheating issue or as you state, 'you love internet lap times'? I love the excuses of trying to shake your car out after you seemingly missed my point after you gave your two cents on overheating!!!!! I would guess you did not drive car as hard as I would have then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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damn decimal. Not bad considering I took cal 1 and 2 3x each.

We've already answered your questions here I tried to help you by stating that I was significantly faster later in the day, learning to drive the car, but whatever.

I'll make sure and watch my mirrors out there. ;)

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Originally Posted by mr brg

damn decimal. Not bad considering I took cal 1 and 2 3x each.

We've already answered your questions here I tried to help you by stating that I was significantly faster later in the day, learning to drive the car, but whatever.

I'll make sure and watch my mirrors out there. ;)

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And your point? Some of us have taken Cal 1 at least 3x and Cal 2 twice, no maybe 3x twice. So if you drove your car faster, of course after you have shaken things out, you would not expect your car to overheat? So far you have only stated theory in your explanation. Maybe I just head over to Gary's and go the S/C route. :confused:

Oh, and you really do not have to watch your mirrors. I will never be behind you, even in my SM!!! :)

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Originally Posted by MiataMike

I can say that I don't have any over heating issues with my turbo setup. But I was only running 5PSI. Oil temps never got over 210 and water temps stayed steady around 180-190 the entire day. (After adding an oil cooler)

Before adding the oil cooler I was about 220-230 in oil temp and around 200 on water temps. Also running 5PSI

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Mike,
Good to know. Thanks. About what HP are you putting down at the rear wheels. Just your best guesstimate, if you would?
Thanks,
Alan

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Originally Posted by smartmx5

And your point? Some of us have taken Cal 1 at least 3x and Cal 2 twice, no maybe 3x twice. So if you drove your car faster, of course after you have shaken things out, you would not expect your car to overheat? So far you have only stated theory in your explanation. Maybe I just head over to Gary's and go the S/C route. :confused:

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No, I do not expect my car to overheat. I got a few clean laps in, together, late in the day and oil temp hit 280*, but I need better ducting there and then everything will be fine. I also have a vented hood I have not yet installed. Yes, go to Gary's, talk to John too, and come back with 200whp. It will be goodness and really easy. My friend has a 400+whp miata racecar that uses a v-mount and only a 1"x18" opening feeds the radiator and it ran cool enough in the 100* desert (vented hood and splitter/belly pan). he's driving harder than we are.

If you go with MS and have questions, not to imply that you don't understand it completely already, I'm happy to help. :burnrubr:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

No, I do not expect my car to overheat. I got a few clean laps in, together, late in the day and oil temp hit 280*, but I need better ducting there and then everything will be fine. I also have a vented hood I have not yet installed. Yes, go to Gary's, talk to John too, and come back with 200whp. It will be goodness and really easy. My friend has a 400+whp miata racecar that uses a v-mount and only a 1"x18" opening feeds the radiator and it ran cool enough in the 100* desert (vented hood and splitter/belly pan). he's driving harder than we are.

If you go with MS and have questions, not to imply that you don't understand it completely already, I'm happy to help. :burnrubr:

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Thanks, mr. brg. I really have not put myself into the whole MS or Voodoo or any of it. I am just simply a miataphile that would like to add a little more boost and reliability since I can not afford a GT3RS until I win the lottery. ;)
I would like to see pics of your vented hood. My buddies down in San Antonio have put vented hoods on their cars and have had great results. If I can get pics, I will post them up.
Do you have pics of your buddy's ducting (on the 400+ hp)? I know that I will need to buy a new front clip or one of Gary's splitters....
Alan

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Originally Posted by smartmx5

Thanks, mr. brg. I really have not put myself into the whole MS or Voodoo or any of it. I am just simply a miataphile that would like to add a little more boost and reliability since I can not afford a GT3RS until I win the lottery. ;)
I would like to see pics of your vented hood. My buddies down in San Antonio have put vented hoods on their cars and have had great results. If I can get pics, I will post them up.
Do you have pics of your buddy's ducting (on the 400+ hp)? I know that I will need to buy a new front clip or one of Gary's splitters....
Alan

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the racecar has ducting built by $$$ Anthony Woodford Racing.

My hood:
http://i33.tinypic.com/2ylw6xz.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/2aaeiky.jpg
I might bolt it up on Saturday...but not sure if it will fit with my 99 motor.

Guys, there is no need to argue. mr brg, Alan is a very capable driver, and he knows that track well. I have no doubt that he's capable of 1:25s at MSR because I've chased him around that track several times, and I can run low 1:26s.

Alan, mr brg actually does know a thing or two about building boosted Miatas. He can come across as an assclown on teh intarweb, but he's actually a pretty smart guy. He has put together a very capable car... now he just needs to learn how to drive it. :wink:

Honestly, I'd suggest that the two of you get together at the track some time, and Alan drive mr brg's car. Alan could get a firsthand feel for what a really powerful turbo Miata is capable of, and mr brg would get a firsthand look at what his car is really capable of running.

::Bum::::Clown:: <------- Ooohhh, I thought that meant moon bozo!

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Originally Posted by altiain

Guys, there is no need to argue. mr brg, Alan is a very capable driver, and he knows that track well. I have no doubt that he's capable of 1:25s at MSR because I've chased him around that track several times, and I can run low 1:26s.

Alan, mr brg actually does know a thing or two about building boosted Miatas. He can come across as an assclown on teh intarweb, but he's actually a pretty smart guy. He has put together a very capable car... now he just needs to learn how to drive it. :wink:

Honestly, I'd suggest that the two of you get together at the track some time, and Alan drive mr brg's car. Alan could get a firsthand feel for what a really powerful turbo Miata is capable of, and mr brg would get a firsthand look at what his car is really capable of running.

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Man, I love you guys!!! I think mr. brg and I are going to be alright. The internet is so impersonal. And I DON'T on a consisent basis run 1:25s. Just want that in print. 1:26s, yes! ONE time in the 1:25s, oh yeah...;)

I would love to drive mr. brg's boosted miata to understand how much power is there...

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Originally Posted by altiain

Guys, there is no need to argue. mr brg, Alan is a very capable driver, and he knows that track well. I have no doubt that he's capable of 1:25s at MSR because I've chased him around that track several times, and I can run low 1:26s.

Alan, mr brg actually does know a thing or two about building boosted Miatas. He can come across as an assclown on teh intarweb, but he's actually a pretty smart guy. He has put together a very capable car... now he just needs to learn how to drive it. :wink:

Honestly, I'd suggest that the two of you get together at the track some time, and Alan drive mr brg's car. Alan could get a firsthand feel for what a really powerful turbo Miata is capable of, and mr brg would get a firsthand look at what his car is really capable of running.

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Thanks for clarifying, lol. I'm also fairly normal in person, my personality apparently doesn't transfer to the webnet. I was pretty pissed when Barry timed me and I was 1-second faster than the 94whp iteration with crappy suspension..."keep timing so I don't feel like a loser." Its bothered me ever since and I must get on the track ASAP for retribution. I like how I suddenly get relegated to the novice group after 60+ hours of track time based upon one lap time, from early in the day, in a brand-new car unlike anything I've driven before after a 2-year hiatus. Entering little bend at 127-134mph was a dramatic change that took some adjustment...but nearly as much adjustment as hitting 7k-rpm in (your 4th gear) going into Ricochet. I can't drive this car the same way anymore...it will hurt me now. I plan on getting several hours of seat-time at Hallett over the summer.

I have a pretty hard time letting other people drive this car...its still like letting someone borrow my girlfriend.

This convo is a little long in the tooth, due to my general bullshit but I'll just say this, whichever way you go, don't do it unless you're ready to address every system in the car. I've done this and its cost me money, aside from hardware failure on the turbo (minor) and high oil temps (minor), it was worth every cent and I'd do it all over again (less than buying that white STI). Its like driving a sledgehammer out there...its brutal. When you have enough mechanical grip and torque to pick up the front inside tire in 4th on corner exit its all worth it and the excuses run out. lol I was able to really work on skill and nip at my friends with the old iteration of the car, now its totally different, like a super-car. Gary will put you on the right track.

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Originally Posted by smartmx5

Mike,
Good to know. Thanks. About what HP are you putting down at the rear wheels. Just your best guesstimate, if you would?
Thanks,
Alan

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Most recently on a mustang Dyno (Hydra EMS) it put out 255 FT/LB of torque at 3800 RPM. I have a bad wastegate and had fluctuation in the boost so the HP was around 235 at 12PSI.
Previous Dyno with the old setup (Link Piggy back) on a dyno jet showed 256 FT/LB and 250HP at 15PSI

I wouldn't go with the Shanghai setup, just cause you know the turbo is waiting to take a crap on you from day one. They even state "Lasted 10 months" on the description, which should be a big red flag that even they are saying not to expect it to last very long. You will need a FMIC if you ever plan on making good power, and TDR has great ones for lots of different setups.

I don't know why everyone is saying not to get a Greddy Kit. The turbo is super reliable, and the manifold is stout (they fixed the cracking issues). It also makes good power (280whp is possible). I would say that if you can get a used Greddy setup, that is the best way to go, but even a new Gredy kit is cheap.

As for the "piggybacks" and "use MS" stuff. You'll be happier spending the money in that area and getting a REAL standalone. AEM, Hydra, Haltech, etc.

Cheap - Fast - Reliable

Pick 2.

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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6

Cheap - Fast - Reliable

Pick 2.

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I like that.

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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6

I wouldn't go with the Shanghai setup, just cause you know the turbo is waiting to take a crap on you from day one. They even state "Lasted 10 months" on the description, which should be a big red flag that even they are saying not to expect it to last very long. You will need a FMIC if you ever plan on making good power, and TDR has great ones for lots of different setups.

I don't know why everyone is saying not to get a Greddy Kit. The turbo is super reliable, and the manifold is stout (they fixed the cracking issues). It also makes good power (280whp is possible). I would say that if you can get a used Greddy setup, that is the best way to go, but even a new Gredy kit is cheap.

As for the "piggybacks" and "use MS" stuff. You'll be happier spending the money in that area and getting a REAL standalone. AEM, Hydra, Haltech, etc.

Cheap - Fast - Reliable

Pick 2.

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Actually they say "We have testing a china charger in house for 10 months with no problems."(grammar fail) I'm not 100% sold on them, but where's your proof that they don't last?

The last turbo I've heard about dying was a Garret unit on the way home from the TDR trackday.

The MS is a REAL standalone. It has it's flaws like the other standalones, but it is cheaper and will produce results. Plus there's plenty of maps and feedback from others running MS.

Chris

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Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92

Actually they say "We have testing a china charger in house for 10 months with no problems."(grammar fail) I'm not 100% sold on them, but where's your proof that they don't last?

The last turbo I've heard about dying was a Garret unit on the way home from the TDR trackday.

The MS is a REAL standalone. It has it's flaws like the other standalones, but it is cheaper and will produce results. Plus there's plenty of maps and feedback from others running MS.

Chris

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Yes, I am sure they put that comment in there to answer the common question..."how long does it last", cause that is the most common complaint for China-chargers. I have seen TONS of china-chargers, and most don't even last 10 months. The fact their's hasn't yet means they are just waiting for it to grenade itself, and that statement is very indicating of such.

Hmm...maybe they didn't have an oil restrictor on the oil feed line to the Garrett. It's required for BB turbos. Yes, even good turbo's can blow when people don't know what they are doing.

MS is too problematic to be considered a REAL standalone. Go browse the MS sub-forum on MT.net...EBC doesn't work, constantly frying, locking up, etc. Hardest part about the ECUs I mentioned is the install. After that, there are almost zero issues, except for idiots thinking they can tune, which happens on all ECUs.

The impeller nut came off the Garrett, not an oil feed line problem.

I do watch the MS forum. It's not hard to get maps and tuning help.
MS is not the best thing since sliced bread, but it's the best bang for the buck if you have the skills.

Chris

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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6

Hmm...maybe they didn't have an oil restrictor on the oil feed line to the Garrett. It's required for BB turbos. Yes, even good turbo's can blow when people don't know what they are doing.

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Agreed...but I thought garrett started putting internal restricors on them. However I have no oil in the compressor tubes or on the compressor wheel so I should be OK, right?

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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6

MS is too problematic to be considered a REAL standalone. Go browse the MS sub-forum on MT.net...EBC doesn't work, constantly frying, locking up, etc. Hardest part about the ECUs I mentioned is the install. After that, there are almost zero issues, except for idiots thinking they can tune, which happens on all ECUs.

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Everyone knows we need better code for EBC but I have the code that's supposed to work for temp scaling on closed-loop boost control and I'll get it in when I have time and test it out. I'd love to see links to frying, locking-up, and whatever else you're claiming. How much experience do you have with MS aside from not liking it? Seriously dude, come on. You can also go to the other SEM forums there, particularly the AEM forum and see drama. How much experience do you have with MS? You have more than I do with others, but I'd love to know how many MS cars you've had in the shop that have software or hardware problems not related to user error.

I agree with you though on idiots who think they can tune, there's a lot of them out there.

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Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92

I do watch the MS forum. It's not hard to get maps and tuning help.
MS is not the best thing since sliced bread, but it's the best bang for the buck if you have the skills.

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Actually, it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. All you have to do is plug it in and add an IAT sensor then drive to a dyno.

I've used Haltech many years ago and hooking it up made no sense and the pin-out didn't match the instructions on the old E6-K, I've used Hydra which has possibly the worst UI I've used and makes you buy their WBO2 and with every firm-ware you get a new user-interface, I've used E-Manage which has a decent UI and I've clicked through the screens in MoTec and know nothing more. MS does everything an EMS needs to do, it has almost any feature you could want aside from EBC, its affordable, and has a massive following of people who love to help. Its worked great in my car for the past 3-years and 40k miles. Never really had a problem with my feaux computer that's given great power and torque, adequate safety features, and flawless drivability. lol