How to make a smoother SCCA event

JStankus, those are some interesting numbers, and it is clear that ER has fewer runs in total during an event (I love getting the facts!). But it doesn't help us figure out why the SCCA's events seem to have so many more problems, and we've still got the whole 3.5 runs versus 6 runs thing going against the SCCA.

I really appreciate your input on this forum. You are apparently [and unfortunately] the only SCCA BoD Member -- outside the Miata Pilots currently on the Board -- who is here giving us the "SCCA view". I know it feels like we are beating the SCCA -- and by association, you -- up, but I assure you we are not.

The quality of the competition at SCCA is top notch, and that's why many of us keep coming (others like POS Racing don't have a life, so they make every event :lol: ). But problems at the events, and only getting 3 runs is simply wearing many of us down.

I applaude your interest in reading -- and responding to -- our thoughts and opinions, and I hope you will take them back to the SCCA BoD. Let them know that these concerns are not just rantings of one or two people, but shared by many serious and dedicated autocrossers. And I hope that the SCCA will take strong, positive steps -- some of which we've suggested in various posts on this forum -- to address the challenges they currently face. Good Luck!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by POS Racing

You have to tell the computer what the car # is so the PAX actually adds more unique cars as far as the computer is concerned.

---

Number of unique car numbers in the computer is not the issue. Since each individual run takes the same effort at computer regardless of how many total unique car/number combos there are.

The issue here is group dynamics; getting 100 people on the same page, is easier than getting 200 people on the same page. i.e. getting twice as many folks where they need to be is a bit more difficult.

Personally I think, once we get our act together, we should be able to get over 800 runs per event. I've been involved in events that used to do that regularly. But folks needed to be on their toes, systems needed to be clear and bulletproof, and folks needed to step up to help fix things when problems occurred.

I fully can understand folks disappointment with only 3 runs, but there are several folks working hard to get things to run smoother. I appreciate any ideas how to make progress on this front. As well as any help.

Regards

John

John do you know what the problem was during first heat that caused it to go so slow? I had heard it was a computer issue is that true?

It seem most folks want to blame number of participants. It's refreshing to see that you are actually looking at the big picture. 8)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kestrel

JStankus,
I applaude your interest in reading -- and responding to -- our thoughts and opinions, and I hope you will take them back to the SCCA BoD. Let them know that these concerns are not just rantings of one or two people, but shared by many serious and dedicated autocrossers. And I hope that the SCCA will take strong, positive steps -- some of which we've suggested in various posts on this forum -- to address the challenges they currently face. Good Luck!!!

---

Thanks for the support.
And don't worry about me taking any of this personally, I realize folks are frustrated. My goal is to work towards the smoothest running event possible. Heck, If I wasn't thick-skinned I wouldn't have spent the number of years on BODs of various clubs that I have.

Getting good feedback from folks helps greatly in coming up with solutions. Personally, I feel the biggest problem the region has is communications. What the real problems are, are not always visible fromt the perspectives of the different speciality chiefs. They have their own unique problems/issues to deal with, and don't always get the perspective of a rank and file competitor. Phil A. has set up an email list to try and get some of the discussion going, but that has been slow in being adopted.

Suggestions and help always appreciated

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by POS Racing

John do you know what the problem was during first heat that caused it to go so slow? I had heard it was a computer issue is that true?

It seem most folks want to blame number of participants. It's refreshing to see that you are actually looking at the big picture. 8)

---

I am checking on that. Two contributors to it were size of heat ~60+kids karts though 2nd heat started early ), and with the remote grid getting the initial cars up to the line took longer than it should. I have a note to Phil A. who was in the trailer 1st heat, to see what he says about the computers.

John

Here's what I got back from Phil. So there were a bunch of computer and other issues.

"The computer totally crapped out right at the beginning.
which cost us about 15 minutes. I had them start the event
using the the backup method. (pen and paper) and once I got the
computer back, I entered the times manually until we got caught up.
then it went south again about 20 minutes later.

we also had a course worker walk thru the finish lights TWICE!
the same guy, TWICE.
which totally freaks everyone out. (just hit 'finish reset' on the timer)
I think gabby got at least 2 reruns, if not 3.

I remember at least 8 reruns.


Then when we got to the end of the cars. The Karts were not ready.
That was at least 10 minutes."


Note to Rich--> Kick me in the butt if I don't put you on first heat computer


Regards

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JStankus

"Note to Rich--> Kick me in the butt if I don't put you on first heat computer"

---

Given the problems with the computer at our last event's first heat, I'm not sure I want that job! :wink: :lol:

The mention of Karts brings up a very interesting dilemma. I had the opportunity to work the position of sticker monkey during a heat when the karts ran this year at one of the Pennington events. It seemed to be much more disorganized than the regular runs. The karts were jumping around in line. Numbers were barely readable. Classes had to be modified on the fly because some of the multi driver karts were running different classes, but because of the permenantly adhered numbers it was not feasable to change class numbering. Several people assisting the kart drivers kept running up to the trailer contesting the times. The list goes on and on. If this is still continuing, then it may have added to the length of first heat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brock

"The mention of Karts brings up..."

---

The Kid Karts thing is a BIG deal, both in the SCCA and in ER. The theory is very good -- get kids involved in the sport from an early age -- but there are a zillion "challenges" in actually bringing it off. The ER Board has had many discussions on the matter, but decided to give them a try this year. The Hernandez's are big champions of Kid Karts, and they work tirelessly to make it work.

But there is a lot of room for improvement -- you've pointed out many of the issues with the Kid Karts. The numbering thing drives me (as the Computer Operator that usually has to deal with the Kid Karts) completely crazy... you can't read them, and they are often not registered correctly in the first place. :x

But in the end, the racing community will just have to decide if they are willing to put up with some inconvienence to allow these kids to race... and learn. At the moment, I'm still in favor of the Kid Karts, even if it causes problems and takes a little longer to get them all through.

On the kids karts, I wonder if it would help having a sign with flip numbers (like a football down marker). That a grid person would ask the karter their number and put it on the board so the trailer can see. Or have each of the kids karts folks make up a 1 foot square sign with their number. They hold the number up while staged and a grid worker takes the sign from them when they are 1 or 2 away from going up to the line.

Other ideas??

John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JStankus

On the kids karts, I wonder if it would help having a sign with flip numbers (like a football down marker). That a grid person would ask the karter their number and put it on the board so the trailer can see. Or have each of the kids karts folks make up a 1 foot square sign with their number. They hold the number up while staged and a grid worker takes the sign from them when they are 1 or 2 away from going up to the line.

Other ideas??

John

---

Could they use a motocross style placard on the front or rear of the cart? They do number the carts but the problem is the side pods are short on a cart. Makes it tough for old people to see. :wink: A front or rear placard could make it easier on the starter as well as the course workers.

This one is good! (Picture from a recent ER event)
http://64.17.157.69/ERAutoX082904/ERAutoX082904_134.JPG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JStankus

On the kids karts, I wonder if it would help having a sign with flip numbers (like a football down marker). That a grid person would ask the karter their number and put it on the board so the trailer can see. Or have each of the kids karts folks make up a 1 foot square sign with their number. They hold the number up while staged and a grid worker takes the sign from them when they are 1 or 2 away from going up to the line.

---

Good ideas. They'd still need to make sure the KKs (Kid Karts) were registered correctly -- that would be between the KKK (Kid Kart Koordinator :lol: ) and the first heat Computer Operator. But anything that helps clear up the communication of numbers between the kart (or Start) and the Trailer would be a goooood thing!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by POS Racing

Could they use a motocross style placard on the front or rear of the cart?

---

An equally good idea. But if you look at that front number plate, there is no [room for] the class letters. You know, FJ3, FJ2, etc. So you would still have some difficulty unless no two karts had the same number (regardless of class). That wouldn't be hard to do, and they pretty much have different numbers now (but not always). Actually, that kart's numbers are not hard to read -- front or side. OK, the FJ2 is a little faded, but there is no mistaking that "94". If all the karts were that well marked, we wouldn't be having this discussion...

While working corner I find that it is almost impossible to read the class of the carts as they go by. Only rarely do I notice a problem with the number.

The issue from a corner / T&S aspect could be to require a different number for each kart driver, and not necessarily each driver in each kart class.

If this means totally covering one or more of the numbers, as the mod cars are supposed to do, then so be it.

I think, but I am not sure, the Kids karts are supposed to all have different numbers. Problems have occured when certain kids always run their age, run up to the kids who have always run a specfic number....but that is a different issue.


John

Okay-- I have tried to extract the comments and issues from this discussion. Please take a look and see if this is accurate, and if there are other solutions or if their are problems you see with solutions suggested.

John

Issues list (the formating look better in Word)

Issues list
1) Computer issues
a. Computer reliability – Phil A. is working on this
b. Trained and non-panicky computer operators
i. We have continually talked about having computer training but it never seems to materialize (I know Phil has offered many times)
2) Sloppy Corner working
a. Better drivers meeting explanation  do we need to make everyone listen?
b. Heat course marshal  an experienced person to circulate out to the corners and tell/correct/instruct/browbeat folks into proper corner working
c. Halting heat to have someone go talk to the corner workers  who?
3) Registration Issues
a. Annual prepaids being on the list
b. Online preregisters being on the list
c. Clear directions on what folks need to do
i. Add signs with directions and clear instructions as to which line they need to stand in
ii. Line markers and pointer cones as well as signs
iii. perhaps a simple hand-out that folks can be given that explains (in 200 words or less, and lots of pictures) what they need to do,
iv. maybe someone who's job it is to shepherd folks and answer questions
d. People not knowing the class they should be running
i. Maybe need a sign with classing information
e. Issues with maintaining the car numbering list
f. Multiple drivers driving the same car that are not sure of what number they want to run
g. Lost registration cards
h. Buddies getting separated (i.e. the problem of "I'm paying for my buddy too, but he is in the other line." And "My buddy paid for me, but he was in the other line.")
4) Work Assignments
a. Annual prepaids not always getting slot
i. Need verification of attendance mechanism
ii. Set up two lines to work assignment desk one for annual prepaids, one for others, take annual folks first (like first class check in at airport)
b. List of preferences for online Preregistration folks so they can be preassigned (needs attendance verification mechanism)
c. List of folks qualified for each position needed (especially computer)
d. Work swap over communications
i. Remote speaker for PA in pits
ii. Perhaps a flag pole, with a flag that can be run up when it is time for next heat workers to report. This pole perhaps can be placed at the Rally point for workers so they no where to go to.
iii. Make sure the announcer knows when to call for workers (not too early and not to late)
e. Make sure corner work with Radio and flag is experienced
5) Only 3 runs
a. We need to improve general smoothness of event
b. The events are very large averaging ~194 participants – do we need to restrict attendance? How would we do that fairly?
c. What is consequence of running over?
i. Can we afford to pay overtime if necessary? Or does running over jeopardize keeping the lot?
6) Lack of support for new people
a. Do we need new people ambassadors at registration
b. How do we encourage new blood in BOD and operations?
c. Newbie school
7) Heat balance
a. Difficult to balance heats completely due to unknown attendance
i. Need attendance verification mechanism for online and prepaids
b. Heat balance strategy is to have early heats longer than later heats to even out heat work assignment desirability
8 ) Organizational problems in the trailer
a. Making sure everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing
9) Kids Karts
a. Legibility of Numbers to trailer
i. Motocross style placards
ii. Number placards while in staging
iii. Grid worker with number sign
iv. Bar codes
b. Random queuing of the Karts – confusing to trailer
c. Late to grid – Need to know how much lead time karts need to be notified to get ready to run
10) Number legibility
a. Ensuring readability
b. Multidriver cars - numbers not adequately crossed out
i. Require unused numbers to be removed from car, or Crossed out where the lines crossing them out must be at least as wide of stroke as the numbers
11) Online registration
a. Inability to confirm attendance
i. See if we can get emails for the online registered folks so as to be able to send request for confirmation
ii. Don’t open registration until some time shortly before event (2-4 weeks?)
b. Add a work preference input
c. Make reserved work assignment contingent upon confirmation of attendance the week prior by email (or phone)
d. Use staggered pricing to encourage online registration ($20 online, $30 walkup). Can we set up online payment as well (make them have an investment and motivation to unregister if they are not coming)

I look at that long and lengthy list and think to myself no farking way! :shock:

It is a little clearer in the word document. Though its pretty much a straight extraction of the discussion.

First step to solving a problem is identifying exactly what the problem is.


John

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JStankus

It is a little clearer in the word document. Though its pretty much a straight extraction of the discussion.

First step to solving a problem is identifying exactly what the problem is.


John

---

True but don't make the problem appear so large that no one wants to help! :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by POS Racing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JStankus

It is a little clearer in the word document. Though its pretty much a straight extraction of the discussion.

First step to solving a problem is identifying exactly what the problem is.


John

---

True but don't make the problem appear so large that no one wants to help! :wink:

---

Good Point

EXCELLENT compilation JS. I'm guessing you are going to share this with the SCCA BoD?

I think its fine to do that all at once -- it will give them a sense of the size of the opportunities. Will they be overwhelmed? I bet they will. Will they dismiss some of them as un-doable/un-fixable? Sure. Will all areas be addressed? Nope -- at least not right away. But it will surface our concerns all in one clear document.

Thanks for taking the lead on this... :thumleft: